[NL20-NL50] NL25 SH, QQ against mid stack shove

    • Gugi19
      Gugi19
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.01.2010 Posts: 325
      Full Tilt - $0.25 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
      Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

      BB: $8.36
      UTG: $14.69
      MP: $27.30
      CO: $48.31
      BTN: $20.84
      Hero (SB): $25.00

      Hero posts SB $0.10, BB posts BB $0.25

      Pre Flop: (pot: $0.35) Hero has Q:diamond: Q:club:

      UTG calls $0.25, fold, fold, BTN calls $0.25, Hero raises to $1.50, fold, UTG raises to $14.69 and is all-in, fold, Hero ?

      At the time villain was unknown. IMO usually limp/3-bet UTG is KK+ but it would be normal 3-bet if he have KK+ so I think this is a call cause he can have random PP or Ax hand.
  • 9 replies
    • EmanuelC16
      EmanuelC16
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.01.2010 Posts: 13,897
      I'd rather wait for a better spot. Like you said, limp/3bet wants to represent AA. The shove is not strange at all, because a normal limp/3bet gives you the call option with a smaller PP and it would really look like he is trying to draw you into the pot. Crushed by KK+ ( which he holds most of the time), flipping with AK (which he has sometimes) fold is safe until you get further info on villain.
    • kosmonaut111
      kosmonaut111
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.01.2009 Posts: 715
      I would call this. If he is unknown, he can be some weird fish and do this with some random hands also.
    • N0pr3s3n7
      N0pr3s3n7
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 14.05.2009 Posts: 1,274
      Originally posted by kosmonaut111
      I would call this. If he is unknown, he can be some weird fish and do this with some random hands also.
      +1.

      If he had full stack it's a fold but I'd never fold to his mid stack too.His stack represents pretty much at least a bit of a fish so don't always evulate yourself thinking people are only limp/3betting KK+ from UTG especially when this is Shorthanded!!
    • EmanuelC16
      EmanuelC16
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.01.2010 Posts: 13,897
      How often do you see solid reg limp/3betting AA? That move looks very fishy, so why wouldn't a half-stacked fish do it?
    • Duudalinja
      Duudalinja
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.12.2009 Posts: 1,030
      Originally posted by EmanuelC16
      How often too you see solid reg limp/3betting AA? That move looks very fishy, so why wouldn't a half-stacked fish do it?
      They do it just because they know someone will iso raise them. Regs know it's exploitable, but fishes may notice that they are getting raised if they limp, so they may try to use it this way with premiums.
    • EmanuelC16
      EmanuelC16
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.01.2010 Posts: 13,897
      Originally posted by Duudalinja
      Originally posted by EmanuelC16
      How often too you see solid reg limp/3betting AA? That move looks very fishy, so why wouldn't a half-stacked fish do it?
      They do it just because they know someone will iso raise them. Regs know it's exploitable, but fishes may notice that they are getting raised if they limp, so they may try to use it this way with premiums.
      Who is they in your phrase? Fish of regs? I still think any fish has the goods here, because they are too afraid to play postflop they just shove it in and do some weird victory dance in front of their computers. :f_ugly:
    • Duudalinja
      Duudalinja
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.12.2009 Posts: 1,030
      With "they" I mean players, but mostly fishes ofc. Regs are thinking payers, so they may use it in some special situations if they try to use it like ever, but fishes may differ in their thinking levels a lot. That's why there are passive players, aggro players, 70/0, 50/50, 50% 3betters and so on - they just all think different. True that some of them will just scream and push AI when they see premium holding, but still are players who will limp AA back and think that they are trapping you. So same goes for limp/raising and other stuff - they just saw something and now they are using it to make their best moves.
    • Gugi19
      Gugi19
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.01.2010 Posts: 325
      Originally posted by EmanuelC16
      How often do you see solid reg limp/3betting AA? That move looks very fishy, so why wouldn't a half-stacked fish do it?

      Well don't know about solid reg, but I saw various kinds of players (lags, fishes...) limp KK+ and then 3-bet (but normal 3-bet most of the time), or if there is no raise behind them c/c all the way.

      Also I saw bunch of fishes limp Ax or small PP and after a raise they shove it with no reason what so ever.
    • Kaitz20
      Kaitz20
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.02.2007 Posts: 27,343
      I´d shove
      You should see enough times also worse hands than just AA and QQ just seems too strong to fold there