Calling a raise out of position for set value

    • minihulk22
      minihulk22
      Global
      Joined: 05.09.2009 Posts: 140
      Hi , in my last sessions I obs. that it isn't profitable to call for a set value w/ small pairs , medium . Many times I call on the flop cbets w/ middle pair , but I fold to turn bet and also when I hit my set and I bet for value , my opp will fold . How often do u call out of position and with what range . Thanks,

      PS: sorry for my english
  • 8 replies
    • EmanuelC16
      EmanuelC16
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.01.2010 Posts: 13,897
      I personally follow the Call 20 rule which means that if I have the necessary implied odds I'm there. Your mistake is maybe not understanding what playing for set value means: call preflop in hopes of hitting a set, postflop no set=>no bet.

      An offtopic question: did you use to play NL5 Rush? I think I have some hands on minihulk on PT3.
    • minihulk22
      minihulk22
      Global
      Joined: 05.09.2009 Posts: 140
      Originally posted by EmanuelC16
      I personally follow the Call 20 rule which means that if I have the necessary implied odds I'm there. Your mistake is maybe not understanding what playing for set value means: call preflop in hopes of hitting a set, postflop no set=>no bet.

      An offtopic question: did you use to play NL5 Rush? I think I have some hands on minihulk on PT3.
      I think I understand the concept , but there are some hands like when u have 99 and the flop is T66 or K72 different suits and ur opp cbets it's hard to fold in that spot .

      Yep , I've played < 100 hands, when I was tilting at my super micro limit 1/2c and I decided to blow up my stack :D
    • Shevtshenko
      Shevtshenko
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.12.2009 Posts: 4,087
      If you ever find a situation where villains are always folding when you bet or raise for value. I'm going to tell you a secret now: use that situation as often as you possibly can to BLUFF. After doing that for 100 times in a row, villains are propably starting to notice that you don't always have a set in such a spot... If not, you'll know what to do.
    • EmanuelC16
      EmanuelC16
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.01.2010 Posts: 13,897
      Depending on the open-raiser's position I think you can call T66r or K72r. But what turn cards do you want to see? What turn cards can aggressor represent? If villain is aggro and I have like a bets-made-hands imaage I sometimes mix it up with donking it on the flop rather then calling flop reevaluating the turn. You have to sometimes try and represent a set and get caught bluffing (not for your entire stack) in order to get real value when actually holding the goods.

      Playing for set value seems straight forward but you'll notice that it is not that easy to get it all in when flopping a monster.
    • Mrt1989
      Mrt1989
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.11.2009 Posts: 29
      if u have position its maybe even better to reraise with 66-99 not to flatcall , but not always
    • MatejM47
      MatejM47
      Black
      Joined: 21.01.2010 Posts: 1,193
      Originally posted by minihulk22
      Originally posted by EmanuelC16
      I personally follow the Call 20 rule which means that if I have the necessary implied odds I'm there. Your mistake is maybe not understanding what playing for set value means: call preflop in hopes of hitting a set, postflop no set=>no bet.

      An offtopic question: did you use to play NL5 Rush? I think I have some hands on minihulk on PT3.
      I think I understand the concept , but there are some hands like when u have 99 and the flop is T66 or K72 different suits and ur opp cbets it's hard to fold in that spot .

      Yep , I've played < 100 hands, when I was tilting at my super micro limit 1/2c and I decided to blow up my stack :D
      Well its really not that hard to fold here, considering your crushed against his preflop value range. That really depends on opponet. If he has a 3-bet of like 3-4% that means he mostly raises the really strong hands, TT or JJ+ AK and AQ or maybe even not AQ. So there is no reason to call with 99 on K72 board since you really dont beat a single hand in his range. Against this kind of opponent on low limits i still think its profitable to call for set value even ignoring the call 20 rule, considering i really doubt his able to fold his overpair like ever so your stacking him more then in 1 of 3 cases which you have to if you apply the call 20 rule. So when you don't hit a set its an easy fold and opponents on those limits probably wont exploit this anyway.

      On the other hand against opponents who have a higher 3-bet %% like 8% or some guys on those limits have even more you are often ahead against his range on those kind of boards. So against them you have different options, you can raise them right there, you can float them if they check to you on the turn. And in some cases you even get lucky and hit your set on the turn and in that case if he has a hand he can really go on tilt mode which is always good :)
    • DecMate
      DecMate
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.01.2009 Posts: 939
      Originally posted by Shevtshenko
      If you ever find a situation where villains are always folding when you bet or raise for value. I'm going to tell you a secret now: use that situation as often as you possibly can to BLUFF.
      And here i am checking when i know he's going to fold. :f_biggrin:
    • MikeAK47
      MikeAK47
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.03.2008 Posts: 136
      Just fold even though you have the option to check.

      That way, in the future they'll respect your checks more!

      I often bluff players by using my special move "check to bluff", they open fold 90% of their hands now because they think I have a monster.

      Sometimes they check-float you, but as soon as you check-barrel the turn they usually give up on the hand, I've had players folding bottom set to me because they think I have a higher set!

      Try it out!

      Best hand I got someone to fold was quads, I had AK, I min-raise pre UTG, 7 callers, flop was 889, I check to all 7 players, 6 of them open folded but one guy check-floats me, turn was another 9, I check-barrel him (super strong move by me), he open folds and tells me he had 88 but put me on 99 because my moves were so strong.

      Check to bluff buddy!

      This is a problem most players have, if they open folded more instead of checking they can bluff for free in the future!