[NL2-NL10] BB defense with QTo

    • benguela
      Joined: 25.06.2009 Posts: 22
      Two questions on the hand below:

      1: Was my defense of the BB with QTo against a loose player correct? I entered the hand ranges for CO in the maximal advanced openraising chart and it turns out my equity is 48.7% and villian is 51.2% so therefor my defense was wrong? I should have folded because 48.7 < 51.2?

      2: After the flop villian goes all-in, I had to make a $0.95 call vs a $1.50 pot, so pot odds comes to 63%? Was the call correct? I entered the hand ranges for CO in the maximal advanced openraising chart and it turns out my equity is 59.4% and villian is 40.5%. Therefor is the conclusion that the call was incorrect because 59.4 < 63% or do I call because 59.4 > 40.5 ?

      Am I using the equilator correctly here? Even though I won the hand, I played it incorrectly? Do I increase the hand ranges for this player and therefor my equity would improve?

      Known players:
      vp$ip BBvsSteal ORL RaisePreflop
      Position: Stack
      AF W$SD WTS hands

      Hero: $4.10

      41 0 67 24
      CO: $1.21
      0.7 0 50 17

      0.01/0.02 No-Limit Hold'em (8 handed)
      Hand recorder used for this poker hand: Elephant 0.87 by http://www.pokerstrategy.com.

      Preflop: Hero is BB with Q , T
      4 folds, CO raises to $0.07, 2 folds, Hero raises to $0.12, CO calls $0.05.

      Flop: ($0.25) K , Q , 4 (2 players)
      Hero bets $0.14, CO raises to $1.09 (All-In), Hero calls $0.95.

      Turn: ($2.43) 3
      River: ($2.43) 2 (2 players)

      Final Pot: $2.43

      Results follow (highlight to see):
      Hero shows a pair of queens (Qd Th)
      CO shows high card ace with king kicker (Ah 6d)

      Hero wins with a pair of queens (Qd Th)
  • 4 replies
    • Duudalinja
      Joined: 21.12.2009 Posts: 1,030
      You can post those range here as well, so we'll see what are you really talking about.
      And regarding hand I don't like playing back like this with QTo OOP against loose player. He will never fold to such 3bet, you have to make it 0.24$ to make him believe and hope to have any FE. So he's calling like always and I don't like situation we are in postflop, so I would wait for better spots.
      Pot odds are 0.95:1.48, approx. 1:1.5 if I'm correct. You have to call 0.95 in pot of (0.25+0.14*2+0.95). Equity is 0.95:2.43, approx. 39%. Pot is (0.25+0.14*2+0.95*2).
      And this call seems brave to me, but if he's really spazzy it is fine, but usually I tend to fold here.

      LE: My bad, wrote that in hurry, a forgot to add one more 0.14$, so now odds and equity should be correct. :)
    • BattleHunter
      Joined: 12.11.2009 Posts: 874
      1st of all - don't post the result. While it spoils our fun guessing villain's range (:P ) it might change our way of thinking and you generally get incorrect (situational based rather than vacuum) answers more often.

      Now how exactly do you know that CO is stealing wide? His stats (and stack) seem fishy, but hell 17 hands is a small sample. Even 100-200 hands provides unreliable samples and you're making a play with a marginal hand based on a 17 hand sample?

      as a general QTo is a very bad hand to be 3betting oop, especially on nl2. You rarely fold a good pair and are often dominated even if you hit!

      now to your questions:

      1) imo no it was not. If you for some reason think that he folds to 3b often, you could try to 3b/fold preflop, but even if you decide to do that you should make it a standard 3bet (3x). WHY would you make it a minraise? You are begging to get called and you will miss more often than not. As already said even when you hit you might not be good, so you basically want to bluff him out of the hand, not get a call being oop vs. a fishy player. Exactly based on that you shouldn't really put the equities like that. Yes, you might have ~50% equity vs. his range, but there are two very big factors:

      1.1) when you 3bet his range gets somewhat stronger, so your equity drops
      1.2) Even if we do have that equity, don't forget that it's simply an "allin to the river" type of calculation vs. his range. you hit a pair only 33% of the chance and could get bluffed out of it. The other 66% of the time we often fold if he bets, even if we beat his 8Ts (a hand we dominate) when we both miss the flop, so you can't take that equity for granted.

      2) If we make the assumptions that he's fishy, then again, you can't really use equity here - as a rule of thumb most fishes are passive, so when they bet they have it. This is especially true when they raise AND get all their money in the middle.

      About your percentages question - for starters you can't put him on a starting hand chart range. He could have totally different tendencies. You do this vs. tags or other more "predictable" type of players.

      That aside, when you make that kind of calculations, this is how it goes:

      The equity we need to make a profitable call is (ammount we have to pay) divided by [(ammount we have to pay )+(dead money in the pot)], so
      0.95/(0.95+0.14+0.25+1.09), or simply 0.95/2.43 = 0.39 or 39%

      if we have 39% equity and make this call we're break even (make it 40 with the rake). Every % more and we're making a winning call.

      But again, I do not believe that you can rely on the assumptions about equity that you made and would never 3bet this hand or call this flop in a standard situation (vs unknown-fishy guy)
    • benguela
      Joined: 25.06.2009 Posts: 22
      thanks guys,

      I did have a "feeling" that I played bad but needed to get a clear reason.

      But damn I see that I forgot the equity formula: (ammount we have to pay) divided by [(ammount we have to pay )+(dead money in the pot)], I know this but had a brain fart yesterday.
    • Kaitz20
      Joined: 02.02.2007 Posts: 27,343
      if there is flushdraw on the board or you have medium pair+flushdraw I think b/c is fine
      In other cases I´d check back flop and get my value on the turn or river
      I wouldn´t usually 3-bet QT unless player is really loose, since he´d often call with dominated hands and you end up stacking off quite light with your tp and drawy boards