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Limping pocket pairs

    • pinnryder
      Joined: 10.11.2009 Posts: 597
      I would like to hear your opinions on limping with PP.
      When do you stop limping?
      I know calling raises that are 15 times of what you can win is ok with PP to go for set value.
      Do you limp any pairs even from UTG in the first blind levels? Which pairs do you raise from UTG early in the tournament?
      I think I read somewhere here that you can raise TT from UTG, then 99 from UTG+1 and so on until you can raise any PP from the BU, is this correct?

      The reason I ask this, is that I just read hazzelde sying that he is not limping PP at 20/40 which is new to me to be honest and I just want to make sure if the limping is a leak in my game.
  • 5 replies
    • crowes
      Joined: 19.09.2009 Posts: 78
      Never limp. Early in the tournament open raise 99+ from any position, 55+ from late position, but that is no sacred rule it all depends ofc on your reads of opponents, blind structure etc.
      And for first 2-3 blind levels i play only 1010+, especially with maniacs still to act or some loose reraisers in which case i can go 4bet all in.
    • alenstrat
      Joined: 13.03.2009 Posts: 821
      I open raise all pocket pairs in early stage if no one has raised. Call 15 with 88 or less. Limp behind when there are limpers.

      Since so many dumbpucks are calling with Ax or Kx I think one needs to build a pot in case one hits and fold equity in case one doesn't preflop, otherwise no point in getting involved in the hand. Open limping = not being the aggresor + out of position + zero postflop playability = wasted money, what can you do with a small pocket pair postflop with like 3 overcards on the flop?

      Later I'll start looking a lot at position, in particular when/if my stack has grown I'll tighten up my opening up range. No need to waste valuable chips from early position with 33 when someone is probably gonna shove allin behind you.

      I don't assume much of what I do is right though :f_biggrin: , I made some type of fusion between my MTT tightness and cash looseness into SNG.
    • Hlynkinn
      Joined: 14.06.2008 Posts: 4,998
      Personally I open limp pocket pairs in early position at the 10/20 and 15/30 levels ( Coaches seem to disagree on if this is profitable r not )

      I overlimp pocket pairs until the 30/60 level.. Occasionally you get the right odds to overlimp at the 40/80... and your position and stack sizes are ofcourse a factor like in everything else :)

      99 is good for raising from UTG
      then in late position you can open up with wider selection of pocket pairs and I personally prefer open raising any pair at the button.

      and I'll quote pzhon:
      The 5-10 rule suggests that you can call a raise in position with a low pair when it is at most 5% of your stack, and up to 10% in very favorable circumstances. However, it appears that the 5-10 rule is too loose. Some players suggest a 3-8 rule instead. In most SNGs, the stacks start short enough that it is hard for someone to raise to under 3% of your stack. Remember that you are not calling only to hit. You should also try to take some pots your opponents don't seem to want.
    • Steelbrewer
      Joined: 22.04.2009 Posts: 580
      Early stages (10/20; 15/30 up to 25/50 sometimes)

      I overlimp all low and mid pockets in middle and late positions. I openfold low pockets in early position and I raise/fold/limp-call middle pockets depending on the table dynamics.

      Late stages:

      I overlimp, overcall any pockets if there is enough money in the pot already (2-3 limpers, 1 raise and 2 callers) and my investment isn't affecting my stack that much (max 10% preferably lower).

      When overlimping, overcalling with PP it is highly preferable to close the action or have as few people behind as possible: CU, BU, SB, BB.

      When openlimping PP you should plan ahead if you are willing to limp/call if someone isolates you or limp/fold.
    • pzhon
      Joined: 17.06.2010 Posts: 1,151
      In some games, open-limping with low pocket pairs in early position is more profitable than folding. Since it is not clear that raising with a low pocket pair in early position is profitable, it is correct in some games to open-limp. For this to be a reasonable play, you want a good chance that no one will substantial raise after you limp. In some games, it is not good to open-limp with a low pair, and folding may be the best option in early position.

      Usually do not open-limp in late position. Usually, either raising or folding will be better than open-limping in late position.

      Overlimping is much more commonly correct than open-limping. Don't forget the alternative of raising. Just as you open-raise 10 bb comfortably, you may shove after limpers for about 10 + 3 x #limpers big blinds without it being an overbet. However, sometimes it is right to overlimp, and hope to hit the flop hard and get paid off. People play very badly in the first level, so look for excuses to play hands while people are giving chips away.

      If you limp in with a low pocket pair, and miss, this does not mean you should give up on the pot. Look for chances to take pots no one wants. It does not matter much whether you have the best hand. Chances to take the pot occur much more often when you have position, but if people check the flop behind you, consider betting the turn.

      Medium pairs 66-99 are significantly stronger than low pocket pairs 22-55. They more often win unimproved, they make more straights, and they get counterfeited less often.