[NL2-NL10] hard spots

    • Lizocain
      Lizocain
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.06.2009 Posts: 173
      Hand converted with online PokerStrategy.com hand converter:

      Play hand

      $0.05/$0.1 No-Limit Hold'em (7 handed)

      Known players:
      BB:
      $10.15
      MP1:
      $3.50
      MP2:
      $10.15
      MP3:
      $4.80
      CO (Hero):
      $10.00
      BU:
      $9.68
      SB:
      $6.99


      Preflop: Hero is CO with 9, T.
      2 folds, MP3 calls $0.10, Hero calls $0.10, 2 folds, BB checks.

      Flop: ($0.35) 8, 6, 7 (3 players)
      BB checks, MP3 checks, Hero bets $0.30, BB raises to $1.00, MP3 folds, Hero calls $0.70.

      Turn: ($2.35) 9 (2 players)
      BB bets $1.65, Hero raises to $8.90(All-In), BB calls $7.25.

      River: ($20.15) K (2 players)


      Final Pot: $20.15.
      Results follow:

      BB shows a flush, king high(3 Q).
      Hero shows a straight, ten high(9 T).

      BB wins with a flush, king high(3 Q).

      first mistake in this hand that I didn't isolate i know that, but at the flop, bet/call seems for me, if not else, at least to slowplay vs sets, 2 pairs, or just see if another spade shows up so u can clearly fold. now, when its no spade on turn, can you ever call / fold the river ? I was thinking so much about this, and I know that alot of players will do this with low sets, with 2pairs, even another straight, or just an A, K high flushdraw. can you choose call turn fold river? or even fold turn ?

      Hand converted with online PokerStrategy.com hand converter:

      Play hand

      $0.05/$0.1 No-Limit Hold'em (9 handed)

      Known players:
      SB (Hero):
      $10.00
      BB:
      $9.09
      UTG1:
      $19.11
      UTG2:
      $10.15
      MP1:
      $4.72
      MP2:
      $10.00
      MP3:
      $4.00
      CO:
      $20.21
      BU:
      $9.85


      Preflop: Hero is SB with A, Q.
      5 folds, CO raises to $0.30, BU folds, Hero calls $0.25, BB calls $0.20.

      Flop: ($0.9) J, K, Q (3 players)
      Hero checks, BB bets $0.50, CO folds, Hero calls $0.50.

      Turn: ($1.9) T (2 players)
      Hero checks, BB bets $0.50, Hero raises to $1.50, BB calls $1.00.

      River: ($4.9) J (2 players)
      Hero checks, BB bets $6.79, Hero calls $6.79.

      Final Pot: $18.48.
      Results follow:

      Hero shows a straight, ace high(A Q).
      BB shows a full-house, jacks full of kings(J K).

      BB wins with a full-house, jacks full of kings(J K).

      here i even said to myself its a KJ, but it was so hard to believe it and I just couldnt fold...should i raise more or even shove the turn ?
  • 5 replies
    • minihulk22
      minihulk22
      Global
      Joined: 05.09.2009 Posts: 140
      #1 hand .
      No way you can call on that type of flop , with a str8 , shove it , many many times even nitts will raise/shove there with sets , overpair w/ FD , or FD + overcards .
      #2 hand .
      why u're calling out of position w/ AQs ? I tend to 3bet there w/ any PP and any broadways , if I know he is doing a lot of blindstealing ( otherwise it's even worse to be that passive w/ AQs out of position )
      I think on that flop I would definitely bet , middle pair +gutshot . If he would raise me probably I would c/f if he is nitty/loose . I don't think that a reg player would be good here , it's not in his range .
    • MaestroOfZerg
      MaestroOfZerg
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.11.2008 Posts: 5,510
      Hi,


      #1

      Raise preflop and as played don't shove the turn. BB could have ANY flush since he got a free play, he has ~100bb and his flop raise size makes sense, you have no reason to believe he's not some kind of reg only you know otherwise. If that's the case he could possibly have stuff like sets and the nut flushdraw when he raises that flop, but he is not going to call it off if you 3-bet the flop and he's not going to call it off on the turn either since your range looks so goddamn strong. I'd call the turn and be ready to fold to a river jam since I won't assume a random reg at nl5 will 3 barrel shove busted flushdraws into me on a blank river.

      #2

      3-betting preflop is fine, calling isn't that bad either especially since BB looks fishy and keeping him around is probably a great idea.

      Flop is fine, turn is obviously fine I'd make it even closer to $2.

      River is likely a fold. Villain lead out at the flop which he'd probably not do with a naked A-high hand, then he blockbet/called the turn strongly indicating he probably didn't have the straight or he'd have 3-bet you with the nuts, but he still had something which could include all sorts of two pairs, and then he overbet jammed a board pairing river, which I don't think is the typical response of somebody having slowplayed Ax on a board pairing river. Now either he's totally spastic or he has exactly what his line says, some kind of two pairs that boated up. I just don't think he bets the flop then just bet/calls the turn with Ax that often unless maybe it's AK exactly.


      Hope it helps.
    • Lizocain
      Lizocain
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.06.2009 Posts: 173
      #1 so call turn makes sense? not to me, if any spade comes on river he bets u fold, if any blank comes on river he bets pot which makes u almost allin, then u ? fold again? then why not fold right on the turn the straight? its a fucked spot but still, i see no way of getting out, except folding the turn, which is well..u gotta be nit

      #2 pfr 3bet or not, im just thinking, is it ever profitable to shove turn ? since many times u split, u just lose from the rake, and if its a 2pair against u, its better to raise small so u can keep them in the hand, but the river ye..its usual, river makes me feel castrated..
    • yeahyoung0312
      yeahyoung0312
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.12.2009 Posts: 340
      Great analysis MaestroOfZerg, especially hand 2. I could not tell why the villain could be betting a straight on the river until I read ur analysis.
    • MaestroOfZerg
      MaestroOfZerg
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.11.2008 Posts: 5,510
      Hi,

      Originally posted by Lizocain
      #1 so call turn makes sense? not to me, if any spade comes on river he bets u fold, if any blank comes on river he bets pot which makes u almost allin, then u ? fold again? then why not fold right on the turn the straight? its a fucked spot but still, i see no way of getting out, except folding the turn, which is well..u gotta be nit

      #2 pfr 3bet or not, im just thinking, is it ever profitable to shove turn ? since many times u split, u just lose from the rake, and if its a 2pair against u, its better to raise small so u can keep them in the hand, but the river ye..its usual, river makes me feel castrated..
      #1

      There is still a chance that our reg-like opponent has a random high-spade in that spot. Most people do follow through on the turn these days but they don't go as far as following through on a blank river, so that's enough for us to stick around a little bit more. But the mere chance of him having a naked high-spade isn't enough warrant us shoving the turn when

      1/ he could have ANY two spades because he was the BB.

      2/ it's very likely he just won't call it off with drawing hands with only one card to come

      So it's just a "protection" shove that ends up putting you up against only better hands, which makes no sense when you can make a pretty decent river decision in position based on what he decides to do.

      Obviously if you were up against an hyperaggro reg he could shove the river with everything he barreled the turn with, in which case seeing what he does on the river wouldn't help us at all, which could make folding the turn or calling down the best play depending on how you weight his range between big lone spade hands and made flushes.

      #2

      Sure, some overbets can be very profitable against the right opponents because some people just can't fold and the price doesn't matter to them. If villain was such a player, we'd gladly jam the turn and hope for the best.

      A lot of people will get scared by the shove tho, especially tags (even bad ones) who know overbets are nutted hands most of the time so that gives them way too much information to help them find a fold, which is why by default we usually opt for a smaller raise to make sure we just don't blow them out of the pot. It yields a lot less value than shoving against the ideal fish, but against the overall population of nl10 it will be the most profitable play.


      Hope it helps.