[NL2-NL10] NL10 SH JJ deep stacks

    • yeahyoung0312
      yeahyoung0312
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.12.2009 Posts: 340
      Villain is a regular with VPIP/PFR/3b 22/19/5.2.

      Hand converted with online PokerStrategy.com hand converter:

      Play hand

      $0.05/$0.1 No-Limit Hold'em (5 handed)

      Known players:
      CO:
      $9.56
      BU:
      $17.88
      SB:
      $21.44
      BB:
      $7.65
      MP3 (Hero):
      $19.57


      Preflop: Hero is MP3 with J, J.
      Hero raises to $0.30, CO folds, BU calls $0.30, SB raises to $1.60, BB folds, Hero calls $1.30, BU folds.

      Flop: ($3.6) 4, 8, A (2 players)
      SB bets $2.50, Hero raises to $5.00, SB calls $2.50.

      Turn: ($13.6) K (2 players)
      SB checks, Hero checks.

      River: ($13.6) 2 (2 players)
      SB bets $4.00, Hero folds, SB gets uncalled bet back.

      Final Pot: $13.6.

      Villain 3bet size was brilliant, made me hesitating to 4b (now I think I should have 4b $4). At that moment I just thought we were both deep stacked and I just called to see what happened.

      Flop was A high and suited and he cbets, I tried to test if he had an A by min-raising. That might be tricky as the flop was suited so my raise can be easily viewed as a semi bluff with a FD, so KK/QQ won't fold. Flat calling might be better.

      After villain ch turn and value bet small on river I knew he had either AJ or AQ. Not AK, as AK will definitely bet on turn.

      Retrospectively I think shoving the river would have been a great move for me but at that time I just decided to fold. Any thoughts?
  • 4 replies
    • minihulk22
      minihulk22
      Global
      Joined: 05.09.2009 Posts: 140
      I think your main mistake in hand reading is that you don't give to much credit to the villain . 3bet from SB put him on a range like QQ+ , A K/Q so after that flop , I don't see what you can beat , I don't think that he was 3 betting TT< or KQ< , so you could call the flop , but I tend to fold here , maybe I'm just to nitty , but I wouldn't minraise him . On the river it's a vbet from most probably an A , def not a shove from you .

      PS: why you use 3bet in your HUD , it's not that efficient at micro's .
    • yeahyoung0312
      yeahyoung0312
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.12.2009 Posts: 340
      Hi Minihulk22,

      Thanks for the comment! You are totally right about the hand reading and it is definitely something I need to fix in my game. My problem is I do not want to give up a hand and always think about driving a better hand out of a pot, even though I know I am beaten.

      He will not cbet without an A on that flop and min raise to represent an A makes no sense there.

      If I 4bet preflop, he might flat call with AK, but AQ will go to the muck. That's why I think a 4bet is better.

      If I shove the river I might be able to sell an AK, given that he is a thoughtful player, the shove might confuse him enough and make him fold but might also polarize too much and allow him to call... who knows? just raised as a possibility.

      The reason I knew he was a thoughtful player is that He folded to me in a hand before when I check raise him with a straight on the turn, and he put me exactly on the straight I had.

      PS: Why do you say 3b rate is not efficient at micro? Any thought will be appreciated!
    • minihulk22
      minihulk22
      Global
      Joined: 05.09.2009 Posts: 140
      You see if he is a reg , as you said that he folded to c/r from you on a turn , I think that he had a pretty good ideea where he's at , you c/r him w/ the nutts , but here you checked the turn ( it's nothing wrong w/ it ) so if u really had AK you didn't want to give him a free card w/ a FD there .
    • MaestroOfZerg
      MaestroOfZerg
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.11.2008 Posts: 5,510
      Hi,

      Originally posted by minihulk22
      I think your main mistake in hand reading is that you don't give to much credit to the villain . 3bet from SB put him on a range like QQ+ , A K/Q so after that flop , I don't see what you can beat , I don't think that he was 3 betting TT< or KQ< , so you could call the flop , but I tend to fold here , maybe I'm just to nitty , but I wouldn't minraise him . On the river it's a vbet from most probably an A , def not a shove from you .

      PS: why you use 3bet in your HUD , it's not that efficient at micro's .
      This. His 3-bet% isn't high enough to justify 4-betting JJ 200bb deep and it's also unlikely he's screwing around with these stack sizes out of position, so indeed on that flop you don't beat anything. Even if you could make him fold his QQ/KK hands by raising (which is justifiable as he will have 3 AA / 6 KK / 6 QQ / 12 AK combos) you shouldn't make it a minraise it's just too cheap when deep, people will make the call out of sheer suspicion.


      Hope it helps.