Pushing too loose or too tight: -EV

    • Avatars91
      Avatars91
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2009 Posts: 2,689
      How much -EV is it to push a little bit too tight or too loose? Let's say I push KT in a spot where ICM trainer suggests KQ, or I'm pushing AT+ where it is suggested to push A7+ or so. Do I loose cents or dollars even?

      Obviously I'm looking for just an approximation.
      Thank you!
  • 6 replies
    • N0pr3s3n7
      N0pr3s3n7
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 14.05.2009 Posts: 1,274
      If you got particular reads on your opponents it's fine and even superior because:
      Pushing wider range will lead to your opponent folding more if he is tight so you win more.Pushing wider range versus LAG will be bad because he will call you with more hands.
    • Steelbrewer
      Steelbrewer
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.04.2009 Posts: 580
      ICM gives you an approximate math based decisions. You can deviate from them based on you reads, previous experience with certain players, game situation, your table image and so on. However you might do mistakes when doing so and that's why you should review your sessions from time to time and post your hand in evaluation forums.
    • Avatars91
      Avatars91
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2009 Posts: 2,689
      Ok, that I kinda get. I just want to know how much mistakes affect your EV, and I guess what I meant by mistakes was not pushing wider or tighter than ICM suggests, but pushing wider or tighter than the optimum range is. Basically, pushing -EV
    • jbpatzer
      jbpatzer
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.11.2009 Posts: 6,944
      The key unavoidable horror of SnGs, particularly on or near the bubble is that even when you push the Nash equilibrium range, a -EV call means it's -EV for both you and the caller, losing equity for both of you. This means that if you know that someone is calling looser than the Nash range you need to push tighter. But how do you know? And how much should you adjust? This is why SnGs are so frustrating.

      That's what I think anyway. :f_biggrin:
    • Steelbrewer
      Steelbrewer
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.04.2009 Posts: 580
      ICM Axiome

      Given calculations by the ICM, make all +$EV pushes and make no -$EV calls. However, sometimes you should make a -$EV push or leave a +$EV call.


      that's from strategy article (silver).

      According to this pushing tighter is rarely a good choice because it will only affect your profits and not save you from losing from time to time, there is no real difference (apart from chance to suckout) in pushing with KQs or 108o if villain calls with AA anyway.

      On the other hand pushing looser can be more profitable even if it is against ICM.

      That's true for micro-low limits where people have less or no idea of optimal play. As a rule of thumb it's more profitable push looser (not always) and call tighter on those limits just because your opponent call too tight (not always) and push too tight.
    • Hlynkinn
      Hlynkinn
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.06.2008 Posts: 4,998
      I'm pretty sure icm calculators show you how many fractions of a buy in you loose on average folding or pushing..