[NL2-NL10] NL10 KK, 3-way pot against big fishes

    • Pichux
      Joined: 02.02.2009 Posts: 318
      ***** Hand History for Game 2398935209 ***** (IPoker)
      $10.00 USD NL Texas Hold'em - Friday, August 20, 08:09:15 ET 2010
      Table Spatterdash (Real Money)
      Seat 1 is the button
      Seat 1: rakemashina ( $10.10 USD )
      Seat 3: gon4iypes ( $10.11 USD )
      Seat 5: Morcovcolea ( $14.47 USD )
      Seat 6: Piters1990 ( $10.18 USD )
      Seat 8: mikas11 ( $2.64 USD )
      Seat 10: Ruffian06 ( $11.06 USD )
      gon4iypes posts small blind [$0.05 USD].
      Morcovcolea posts big blind [$0.10 USD].
      ** Dealing down cards **
      Dealt to Piters1990 [ K :club: K :heart: ]
      Piters1990 raises [$0.35 USD]
      mikas11 calls [$0.35 USD]
      Ruffian06 calls [$0.35 USD]
      rakemashina folds
      gon4iypes folds
      Morcovcolea folds
      ** Dealing Flop ** [ 5 :heart: , 3 :club: , 6 :club: ]
      Piters1990 bets [$1.20 USD]
      mikas11 folds
      Ruffian06 calls [$1.20 USD]
      ** Dealing Turn ** [ 4 :club: ]
      Piters1990 checks
      Ruffian06 bets [$1.90 USD]
      Piters1990 calls [$1.90 USD]
      ** Dealing River ** [ T :club: ]
      Piters1990 bets [$6.73 USD]

      Both villains are 60/5/2.5 on about 30h big sample

      Great situation pre getts ugly on flop. I still decide to cbet because their range is so wide they easily could have missed the flop completely. When the turn becomes even more ugly and the fishy fish makes 1/2 bet i started to think something about the implied pot odds because of my backdoor FD....Got a bit messed up, understood that i don't know shit about them ( I have read the article for about 5 times :f_biggrin: ), thought to myself"Ok, F it. He's playing disgusting so i call" :D When i hit my flush i am pretty sure that i am ahead and since the pot was so big i just shipped it in...
  • 3 replies
    • MaestroOfZerg
      Joined: 17.11.2008 Posts: 5,510

      I actually like your line, for different reasons.

      On the flop I'm thrilled to c-bet for value against 60/5 no matter the sample size, he could have any pair any draw, he could call with overcards as well quite often, hell so far he looks aggressive enough to raise/calloff a worse overpair there. I am by no means betting to make them fold because they often miss with their wide ranges, and you shouldn't bet for that reason either.

      The 4c turn is awful, everything except lower overpairs and floats that he called the flop with made two pairs/sets/straights/flushes, so we're pretty screwed. If we bet again chances are we'll get raised or shoved on, which we can't call even with our redraw unless it's retardedly small. Here either I think I can buy a cheap river by blockbetting then I'll do that, or I'll check to villain and see if he's bad enough to give me odds on a check/call. The fact that our outs make the board godawful isn't a big factor, since villain is so bad he might not even fold two pairs on a 4-flushed board.

      When he bets $1.9 you're getting ~2.9:1 immediate odds (you need around 4:1 with your flushdraw, a bit more because sometimes you're drawing dead or you'll get a board pairing club on the river, let's call it ~5.5:1) with about $6.5 left in your stacks, which is ~3.2:1 more. So including implied odds you do get around ~6.1:1, which means you can make the call if you get villains stack on the river nearly every time you hit a club. That's a reasonable assumption since he probably has a good hand in absolue strength and doesn't understand relative strength. Number are quite close (even tho I just fudged with them a lot :p) so you can go either way.

      As played on the river there is no other play, your turn call relies on you getting money on the river when you hit and you can't expect him to bet for you if he doesn't have a flush.

      Hope it helps.
    • yeahyoung0312
      Joined: 16.12.2009 Posts: 340
      My problem with this hand is even fish don't pay off in a 4 flush board without the NUT or at least a K high flush. So the implied odds you expected are actually much smaller than you thought.
    • MaestroOfZerg
      Joined: 17.11.2008 Posts: 5,510

      Then fold :p As usual the reasoning is more important than the decisions, if you disagree with one assumption it might change the perceived best play drastically. Personally I've seen that kind of player call it off with stuff like 65/2x as well as obviously 7x/~5c/one random club before in similar spots, so I don't think the implieds are that bad, maybe bad enough to make it a close-ish fold.