[NL20-NL50] JJ in 3B pot Flop no over card

    • Dublimax
      Dublimax
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.11.2008 Posts: 2,233
      Ok here are 2 hands I have played with JJ in a 3B pot with 3 lower cards on the flop 2 of them suited.


      Hand converted with online PokerStrategy.com hand converter:

      Play hand

      $0.1/$0.2 No-Limit Hold'em (5 handed)

      Known players:
      BB:
      $20.95
      MP3:
      $3.60
      CO:
      $23.23
      BU (Hero):
      $20.37
      SB:
      $20.00


      Preflop: Hero is BU with J, J.
      2 folds, Hero raises to $0.60, SB folds, BB raises to $2.20, Hero calls $1.60.

      Flop: ($4.5) 5, 6, T (2 players)
      BB bets $3.20, Hero calls $3.20.

      Turn: ($10.9) K (2 players)
      BB bets $8.20, Hero folds, BB gets uncalled bet back.

      Final Pot: $10.9.

      Villain is VP:24/PR:19/AFq:40 over 20 hands.

      When reviewing this hand myself I came to the conclusion that I should have raised the flop to 8.50 because I need to protect against FD and AQ,QK,AK.
      If I raise and get reraise I fold (probably against QQ+ then).

      This made sense to me and still does.

      Then I played the following hand

      Hand converted with online PokerStrategy.com hand converter:

      Play hand

      $0.1/$0.2 No-Limit Hold'em (6 handed)

      Known players:
      CO:
      $4.83
      BU:
      $20.00
      SB:
      $15.56
      BB:
      $22.51
      MP2 (Hero):
      $20.00
      MP3:
      $13.70


      Preflop: Hero is MP2 with J, J.
      Hero raises to $0.80, 3 folds, SB raises to $2.00, BB folds, Hero calls $1.20.

      Flop: ($4.2) 9, 6, 8 (2 players)
      SB bets $4.20, Hero raises to $18.00(All-In), SB calls $9.36.

      Turn: ($35.76) 8 (2 players)


      River: ($35.76) A (2 players)


      Final Pot: $35.76.

      Villain is unknown.

      Here again I am facing a donk bet on the flop.
      But this time a pot bet and villain has only a midstack so if I raise i have to raise to lets say 10 and then I am comitted so I decided to shove directly.
      Eventhough I don't really like it since I can be against QQ+ (especially since villain is showing stregth by 3B a UTG raise.

      The other question also is should I 4 B (fold to 5B) in these situiations. (I think I should have in the first hands since villain is probably 3Betting light to defend his blinds and not 4B in the second because I am UTG aggressor so villain shows stregth)
      Any thoughts on these 2 similar hands?

      Thanks
  • 3 replies
    • Kaitz20
      Kaitz20
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.02.2007 Posts: 27,343
      1) I also like raising flop since you very often have the best hand and he would shove there with worse draws and made hands
      2) I don´t like shove, since this way he can´t really shove himself with his draws or maybe want to fold smt like 55. It is always nice to keep some bluffs that board so I´d prefer smaller raise size
      If you should 4-bet/and get all-in with JJ pf depends a lot of the game flow, how often villain 3-bets you and if he would 3-bet/shove smt like TT. I think against aggressive opponents getting all-in JJ pf can be very standard play if you don´t want to play postflop
    • Dublimax
      Dublimax
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.11.2008 Posts: 2,233
      On the 4B light with JJ inthe hand #1, can we fold if he shoves?

      hand#2 you raise smaller but would call a shove right?
      It kind of sucks to shove (either now or calling his shove) because Villain shows stregth by 3B a UTG raise? What ya think?
    • Kaitz20
      Kaitz20
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.02.2007 Posts: 27,343
      Originally posted by Dublimax
      On the 4B light with JJ inthe hand #1, can we fold if he shoves?

      hand#2 you raise smaller but would call a shove right?
      It kind of sucks to shove (either now or calling his shove) because Villain shows stregth by 3B a UTG raise? What ya think?
      BU vs BB I think he can shove there lighter than QQ+/AK, so I´d 4-bet/call there with JJ

      Once we raise overpair small on that board we have to call shove.
      I think his range is enough draws and worse one pair hands than JJ. If you think he is not 3-betting you light then you can always just call flop and then fold to turn barrel