Rakeback vs. No Rakeback

    • SilverSag
      SilverSag
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.07.2010 Posts: 512
      Went through all the rakeback FAQ thread and did not find an answer, so asking here :f_cool:

      I would like to know how these two players compare:

      Both players play only FR cash games. Both players only take out cash - they dont buy tickets, merchadise, nothing.

      Player 1 - has 27% rakeback deal.

      Player 2 - does not have rakeback deal, but uses all possible means to get rake back indirectly (changes, FPP for cash, medals for cash, etc.)

      From what I understand, Player 1 should be better off in lower limits, whereas Player 2 can accumulate a lot of indirect rakeback from VIP programme, but what is the difference? Has anyone done some calculations?
  • 15 replies
    • zamoda
      zamoda
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.03.2009 Posts: 509
      Player 1 can use all other methods too.. His rakeback will be lower but he will get extra from medals, points, etc. Anyway it will be more than not having rakeback
    • IhasLuck
      IhasLuck
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.05.2010 Posts: 326
      Originally posted by zamoda
      Player 1 can use all other methods too.. His rakeback will be lower but he will get extra from medals, points, etc. Anyway it will be more than not having rakeback
      this
    • onepark
      onepark
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.07.2009 Posts: 970
      Originally posted by zamoda
      Player 1 can use all other methods too.. His rakeback will be lower but he will get extra from medals, points, etc. Anyway it will be more than not having rakeback
      +2
      :)
    • SilverSag
      SilverSag
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.07.2010 Posts: 512
      Originally posted by zamoda
      Player 1 can use all other methods too.. His rakeback will be lower but he will get extra from medals, points, etc. Anyway it will be more than not having rakeback
      That is not what the sticky about rakeback on FTP says... ?( From that table it is very clear that you get your rakeback deducted.

      OK, I will try to reformulate the question:

      How much (10, 15, 20%) of rake can a player get back in FTP if he does not have rakeback deal?
    • EagleStar88
      EagleStar88
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.10.2008 Posts: 7,359
      Hi Silversag,

      As zamoda has already confirmed, all of the Full Tilt VIP benefits, eg. Ironman, happy hours, Take2, Free$50, Academy and many more are available to all Full Tilt players, both those on Rakeback and those without.

      Rakeback is available to PokerStrategy members at 27% of all Net Earned Rake (see the sticky for deductions from Gross rake) on top of the VIP benefits and at no additional cost.

      You should always take up this rakeback offer to get the most return from Full Tilt.

      Don't get too hung up over the deductions, all Full Tilt are doing is excluding the added value items such as overlays and freerolls from your net earned rake.
      All deductions are small and you will only lose 27% of their value in lost potential rakeback, not the full value.

      If you don't take up rakeback, you will lose 27% of all the rake you generate which would have been returned to you under the rakeback deal.

      I don't know the exact value of the VIP benefits, but whatever they are, they are better with rakeback included... always.

      Hope this helps, best regards,


      Bart

      p.s. This is what applies to Full Tilt. I know what you are referring to however, Betfair for example recently moved to the Ongame network and you got to choose whether to retain your existing rakeback deal or sign up to their VIP club. That was Betfair only however. Full Tilt allow both at the same time.
    • SilverSag
      SilverSag
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.07.2010 Posts: 512
      I can't get a rakeback from FullTilt X( , because I registered there before I found out about PokerStrategy, so getting or not getting is not a question anymore.

      I just wanted to know to what % from total net rake amounts the total of all non-rakeback benefits. 10% ? 20% ? 25%?

      There must be someone, who is playing on FullTilt and does not have rakeback deal...
    • Swire
      Swire
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.08.2009 Posts: 320
      Thought so from your first post... Always the same people :tongue:
    • lennonac
      lennonac
      Global
      Joined: 02.05.2009 Posts: 1,421
      Originally posted by SilverSag
      I can't get a rakeback from FullTilt X( , because I registered there before I found out about PokerStrategy, so getting or not getting is not a question anymore.

      I just wanted to know to what % from total net rake amounts the total of all non-rakeback benefits. 10% ? 20% ? 25%?

      There must be someone, who is playing on FullTilt and does not have rakeback deal...
      Email Fulltilt 90% of the time they will give you rakeback direct through themselves
    • Akwed
      Akwed
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.06.2009 Posts: 252
      Ok, here is one extreme case. This is max RB what you can take without RB:) .
      ---------------
      200FTP per day x 25 days
      714$ rake paid
      ---------------
      5000FTP = 25$ ticket
      250 medals = 250$ ticket
      100$ from iron man bonus
      cca. 25$ from other promotions
      => 400$
      714$ rake -> 400$ back => 56% RB!!
      with RB => 193$ RB - 108$(400*0.27) + 400$ = 485$ => 68%
      ----------------------------------------------
      If you make more FTP per day than RB will be reduced. I thing that 20% RB without RB:) , is doable. But 20% without RB = 41,6% with RB

      this is what you want? :f_p:
    • lyabc0826
      lyabc0826
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.07.2008 Posts: 493
      Originally posted by SilverSag
      I can't get a rakeback from FullTilt X( , because I registered there before I found out about PokerStrategy, so getting or not getting is not a question anymore.

      I just wanted to know to what % from total net rake amounts the total of all non-rakeback benefits. 10% ? 20% ? 25%?

      There must be someone, who is playing on FullTilt and does not have rakeback deal...
      You can try in XXX [Edited by EagleStar88 - Please do not post affiliate links, against forum rules]
      They will give you rakeback if you had a account.
    • zamoda
      zamoda
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.03.2009 Posts: 509
      Originally posted by Akwed
      Ok, here is one extreme case. This is max RB what you can take without RB:) .
      ---------------
      200FTP per day x 25 days
      714$ rake paid
      ---------------
      5000FTP = 25$ ticket
      250 medals = 250$ ticket
      100$ from iron man bonus
      cca. 25$ from other promotions
      => 400$
      714$ rake -> 400$ back => 56% RB!!
      with RB => 193$ RB - 108$(400*0.27) + 400$ = 485$ => 68%
      ----------------------------------------------
      If you make more FTP per day than RB will be reduced. I thing that 20% RB without RB:) , is doable. But 20% without RB = 41,6% with RB

      this is what you want? :f_p:
      256$ ticket is 1250 medals, not 250
    • EagleStar88
      EagleStar88
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.10.2008 Posts: 7,359
      Guys, please do not post links to other affiliates or rakeback providers, this is strictly against the forum rules and is unfair to PokerStrategy and it's partners. Although we appreciate the intention was just to help the OP.


      @OP: I can confirm as lennonac has already stated, if you contact Full Tilt's own support team and explain the situation, they will usually provide you with rakeback on your existing account.
      They will allocate you to an (in my opinion inferior) affiliate without the many other benefits and added value that PokerStrategy provides it's tracked members, but you should still benefit from rakeback.

      Whilst PokerStrategy would always prefer to retrack members itself, until poker platforms allow this, we would never stand in the way of members obtaining the next best solution.

      Good luck and thanks to everyone for your co-operation in abiding by the forum rules.

      Best regards,


      Bart

      btw: Each Ironman medal is worth approx $0.20 each, this is the effective value applied by Full Tilt ;)
    • SilverSag
      SilverSag
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.07.2010 Posts: 512
      I have already contacted Full Tilt support ages ago. Apparently, I have signed to Full Tilt from some other affiliate :( I have no idea what affiliate (probably followed some link without any idea about consequences) but I cannot get rakeback from Full Tilt anymore. Period.

      That is exactly why I asked this question and it seems that Akwed gave me the answer.

      Btw, if my calculations are correct, then I am already getting about 66% of rake back through VIP programme on Everest Poker, where I play now :f_eek:

      So, I guess I will stay where I am for now :f_cool:
    • Waiboy
      Waiboy
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.09.2008 Posts: 4,877
      Originally posted by SilverSag
      I have already contacted Full Tilt support ages ago. Apparently, I have signed to Full Tilt from some other affiliate :( I have no idea what affiliate (probably followed some link without any idea about consequences) but I cannot get rakeback from Full Tilt anymore. Period.

      That is exactly why I asked this question and it seems that Akwed gave me the answer.

      Btw, if my calculations are correct, then I am already getting about 66% of rake back through VIP programme on Everest Poker, where I play now :f_eek:

      So, I guess I will stay where I am for now :f_cool:
      I was told the same thing. I asked for details on who the affiliate was so that I could contact them directly and try to obtain rakeback through them. After the checked they advised this was not the case and I ended up getting rakeback through the FTPs retracking affiliate.

      I suggest you try this approach (assuming you've first tried to retrack to PS.com, which would, of course, be awesome).
    • SilverSag
      SilverSag
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.07.2010 Posts: 512
      Well, I still have the PokerStars support left :f_biggrin: I have not talked to them yet :f_biggrin: I just wanted to know, how good that rakeback deal really is compared with no rakeback and is it really worth the extra effort.

      And yes, it would be really nice to link it to Poker Strategy, if only for Strategy points :f_cool: