[NL2-NL10] NL4 JQo MP+1

    • BigAl123456
      BigAl123456
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.07.2010 Posts: 4,080
      PartyGaming - $0.04 NL - Holdem - 9 players
      Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

      SB: $3.64
      BB: $5.82
      UTG: $11.72
      UTG+1: $3.92
      MP: $4.00
      Hero (MP+1): $4.21
      LP: $4.31
      CO: $4.49
      BTN: $7.93

      SB posts SB $0.02, BB posts BB $0.04

      Pre Flop: ($0.06) Hero has J:club: Q:diamond:

      UTG raises to $0.08, fold, fold, Hero calls $0.08, fold, fold, fold, SB calls $0.06, BB calls $0.04

      Flop: ($0.32, 4 players) 8:diamond: 9:diamond: A:diamond:
      SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, Hero checks

      Turn: ($0.32, 4 players) T:club:
      SB bets $0.28, fold, fold, Hero calls $0.28

      River: ($0.88, 2 players) 9:heart:
      SB bets $0.63, Hero calls $0.63

      Few things I did wrong.

      1- call the min raise since usualy a raise from UTG is stong.
      2- Should of Raised the Turn
      3- Should Fold on the river because Flush and Full House beats me
  • 3 replies
    • fryandspicy
      fryandspicy
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.05.2010 Posts: 440
      Definately don't like the call preflop.

      On the flop you could maybe semi bluff your second nut flush draw, but against this many opponents it's probably best not to because the chances of them all folding is pretty slim even though they did all just check.

      On the turn i think maybe the call is okay because there aren't a whole lot of bad cards that could come for you. Apart from the board pairing you shouldn't be that fearful of anything, and maybe you can get more money out of his TPTK by just calling.

      On the river i think you can call again. Preflop i put him on TT+ and AK, against that range you're facing two pair more than you are flush or full house even if he doesn't bet KK, QQ, JJ here , so it's worth a call as long as you can see him betting AK here.
    • SPwoodrose
      SPwoodrose
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.01.2010 Posts: 87
      Originally posted by fryandspicy
      Preflop i put him on TT+ and AK, against that range you're facing two pair more than you are flush or full house even if he doesn't bet KK, QQ, JJ here , so it's worth a call as long as you can see him betting AK here.
      I don't think that's even close to his preflop range. Villain is calling a minraise from the SB with two players already in the pot, and it's nl4. I would expect all kinds of suited connectors and other garbage hands, which puts a lot more flushes in his range postflop. TT+, AK would be more likely to 3bet pre IMO.

      I'm not saying hero should fold, since SB can still show up with a lot of Ax or 2-pair hands that he feels safe to bet after the flop checked around. But it's pretty close, and depends on what kind of player villain is.
    • MaestroOfZerg
      MaestroOfZerg
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.11.2008 Posts: 5,510
      Hi,

      Originally posted by SPwoodrose
      Originally posted by fryandspicy
      Preflop i put him on TT+ and AK, against that range you're facing two pair more than you are flush or full house even if he doesn't bet KK, QQ, JJ here , so it's worth a call as long as you can see him betting AK here.
      I don't think that's even close to his preflop range. Villain is calling a minraise from the SB with two players already in the pot, and it's nl4. I would expect all kinds of suited connectors and other garbage hands, which puts a lot more flushes in his range postflop. TT+, AK would be more likely to 3bet pre IMO.

      I'm not saying hero should fold, since SB can still show up with a lot of Ax or 2-pair hands that he feels safe to bet after the flop checked around. But it's pretty close, and depends on what kind of player villain is.
      Agreed on that, and the fact that it's a mandatory preflop fold for hero.

      On the flop you can go either way but betting, while potentially a lot more profitable since it bloats the pot for when you hit the best hand and one of your opponents hit a lower flush (and also opens up barreling spots), will also be a hell of a lot tougher to play correctly and might get you in kinda horrible spots against unknown when you hit the 2nd nuts and you have no idea how to tell if villain is betting the nut flush only or if he's capable of betting lesser flushes.

      I wouldn't raise the turn unless I was confident villain could bet top pairs this strong on the turn, it's still a very scary board and people suck at valuebetting when everything looks scary. Villain's check on the flop means almost nothing, it doesn't take any nut hand out of his range. If you're positive villain will lead Ax hands AND call a raise with them then go ahead but it's likely a raise/fold, when you get 3bet you're up against a made flush way too often, possibly drawing dead. Otherwise you're just valueraising against 88-TT, that don't make up that many combos compared to all random two diamonds he could have.

      On the river I don't really mind calling if you're still convinced the guy can valuebet this strong with stuff like AJ on a 3-flush 3-straight paired board but really I'm not a believer. I'd fold as well expecting to see either a made flush or a rivered boat.


      Hope it helps.