problem understanding example in beginer section

    • spartacusro
      spartacusro
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.10.2009 Posts: 415
      http://www.pokerstrategy.com/strategy/bss/1563/3/ seems pictures doesn`t show up
      EXAMPLE 1
      Before the flop - NL25 Blinds: $0.10/$0.25
      You are BU
      QsJs

      * UTG1 calls $0.25
      * UTG2 and UTG3 fold
      * MP1 calls $0.25
      * MP2, MP3 and CO fold
      * Hero calls $0.25
      * SB folds
      * BB checks


      Flop - Active Players (4): Hero, BB, UTG1, MP1 - Pot: $1.10
      Ad Ts 5s

      * BB bets $0.75
      * UTG1 calls $0.75
      * MP1 folds
      * Hero calls $0.75

      Turn - Active Players (3): Hero, BB, UTG1 - Pot: $3.35
      5d

      * BB bets $3
      * UTG1 and Hero fold

      Your calculations start on the flop. You have to pay $0.75 to see the turn. There are $1.10 + 2 x $0.75 = $2.60 in the pot. Your pot odds are $2.60 : $0.75 or roughly 3.5 : 1.
      You’re holding a high flush draw, for which you have a total of 9 outs. Four additional outs come from the gutshot draw for a straight. Since you’ve already calculated the spades-out for the flush draw, you only count 3 outs for the gut shot. A quick glance at the table will tell you that you need pot odds of at least 3:1, in order to be able to see the next community cards with 12 outs. Since the pot odds are better than the required odds, you can go right ahead and call.

      The same calculation applies on the turn. However, now you only have pot odds from 2.1:1. However you cannot give yourself 12 outs anymore, as the pair in the community cards doesn’t make a full house probable, but possible. You still got 8 outs left, you’d need pot odds 5:1. Your decision is made. You fold.

      what are the outs that need to be discounted on the flop where 3 kings and 9 spades on the turn u discount 1 ace of spades others i can`t figure it out

      please help thank you
  • 6 replies
    • HannesZ
      HannesZ
      Headadmin
      Headadmin
      Joined: 30.06.2010 Posts: 16,311
      Hi spartacusro,

      In our example every spade (9 outs) gives you a flush and every king (3 outs) a straight. So in total you have 12 outs. However not every out will help you to win.

      For example: If your opponent has A5, you are already drawing dead, because he has a full house and you can't beat his hand any more.

      He won't have A5 every time, so you just discount some outs and not every out.

      Maybe our glossary also can help you:
      Discounted Outs

      If you have further questions, please do not hesitate to ask.

      Best regards,
      Hannes
    • spartacusro
      spartacusro
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.10.2009 Posts: 415
      the example said that on the turn u have 8 outs i was wondering what are those outs as for me the only out u need to don`t count is A spades
    • HannesZ
      HannesZ
      Headadmin
      Headadmin
      Joined: 30.06.2010 Posts: 16,311
      Hi spartacusro,

      As I wrote already in my example above if the other player holds A5 you have no outs any more. But he won't have this hand every time, so you reduce just some outs.

      Is it understandable now?

      Best regards,
      Hannes
    • MatejM47
      MatejM47
      Black
      Joined: 21.01.2010 Posts: 1,193
      Well i think you mean why As isn't your out anymore. If an As comes you can be sure you dont have the best hand with your flush on 2paired board. Also if he has AK then there's also 1 less king in the deck for you to hit. Considering there are 2 players one of them could have an Ace and the other one could have a lower flush draw, in which case you have -4 outs. Basically you never have all 12 outs clean.

      As played think folding to a potsize bet on the turn is a good play considering he can already have a boat in which case you can never be happy get it in on the river if you hit. This is a case of reverse implied odds.

      You could make a call if the board wasn't paired tho, considering his big turn bet means strength and when you hit you have position and you have high implied odds, even tho you dont get direct odds for a call.
    • spartacusro
      spartacusro
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.10.2009 Posts: 415
      thank you matejM47

      hannesz i got it from the 1st time i wasnt understanding the rest that matejM47 explain sry for not beeing more explained

      ty for patience
    • SvenBe
      SvenBe
      Headadmin
      Headadmin
      Joined: 19.04.2006 Posts: 13,111
      Originally posted by spartacusro
      thank you matejM47

      hannesz i got it from the 1st time i wasnt understanding the rest that matejM47 explain sry for not beeing more explained

      ty for patience
      he spartacusro,

      happens that I saw your post and I've read it out of curiousity - have you ever visited one of our live coaching sessions for beginners? Asking questions there is easy and coaches will reply in real time - our beginner coaches are very patient and there are no stupid questions. The only stupid thing would be to play without a clue & before knowing what to do!

      If you do not know how to visit our live coaching sessions, please read http://www.pokerstrategy.com/coaching/how-to/

      bye,sven from Gib!