Is it bad bankroll management?

    • RubyWesson
      RubyWesson
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.08.2010 Posts: 363
      Well i was playing SSS on a table at PartyPoker and it fell short handed so i was going to leave, but a player which had joined a while before who was a very weak player and i had examined the player quite well,it went down to 3 handed so i decided to stay on with him and buyin full stacked which is $10 to my $60 bankroll he had about 2 1/2 times my stack. I was very confident i could beat this player. I stayed around for about 40 hands until he managed to double me up. Is it bad bankroll management when you are nearly 100% certain you can beat the player in the long run. I'm not saying do this everyday but in the odd case you see a vulnerable player willing to lose his money to you. I know that if i done this to every person i thought i could beat i would be broke in no time, im saying if i done it say once a month?
  • 19 replies
    • andreibalint
      andreibalint
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.04.2009 Posts: 872
      Yes it is. The whole purpose of BRM is to keep you alive if you are unlucky. Notice i never specified player skill. You may be unlucky against a complete idiot or against Ivey.
    • RubyWesson
      RubyWesson
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.08.2010 Posts: 363
      Yes but you cant go broke if your risking 1 full buy in like once in a blue moon it would still be impossible to go broke. Im not talking about doing this everytime u see a weak player. but when you can tell its the right time, you feel your playing your A+ game
    • Alficor1
      Alficor1
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.06.2010 Posts: 7,291
      Well imagine if you got unlucky and lost this one BI... are you sure you wouldnt go on tilt and lose more?
    • Hahaownedlolz
      Hahaownedlolz
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.04.2009 Posts: 1,755
      I'd say go for it.. if your very certain you have a big edge on the player and don't do it too often. I think the biggest problem would be say he sucks out on you and hits a 2 outer on the river and you lose the buy in. Are you sure your able to just quit and not try to win back what you lost?
    • joecar
      joecar
      Silver
      Joined: 09.04.2008 Posts: 347
      Your not understanding the luck part, "but when you can tell its the right time" means nothing when you hit a bad run, 6BI is pretty bad. There is no right time with that loose of BRM.

      You spend hours grinding to increase your BR, why waste progress and possibly lose BI's in seconds.
    • Vainis
      Vainis
      Gold
      Joined: 24.02.2010 Posts: 75
      I think it is very bad to do moves on one player. U think he is bad and u risks 1/6 your BR to take it out. Just remember luck and bad luck factor. And if u ll lose? It is very likely your game become personal. And it will be very big mistake:)
    • DecMate
      DecMate
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.01.2009 Posts: 939
      Originally posted by RubyWesson
      Is it bad bankroll management when you are nearly 100% certain you can beat the player in the long run.
      Yes it's bad bankroll management. I don't think you understand the actual reason you need BRM, BRM is for the downswings in poker, when that "donky" sucks out on you time and time after, so you can survive the downswing, and win in the longrun.
    • Hahaownedlolz
      Hahaownedlolz
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.04.2009 Posts: 1,755
      Originally posted by joecar
      Your not understanding the luck part, "but when you can tell its the right time" means nothing when you hit a bad run, 6BI is pretty bad. There is no right time with that loose of BRM.

      You spend hours grinding to increase your BR, why waste progress and possibly lose BI's in seconds.
      Think about it this way. Would phil ivey play $25/$50k against Dwan or Antonius? hell no.

      Would he play $25k/$50k against a rich businessman or a fish? I'd say there's a very good chance he would.
    • RubyWesson
      RubyWesson
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.08.2010 Posts: 363
      Thanks for your comments i wont be doing it again, i got lucky this time cos i hit nut flush and he showed a lot of aggression, and yea if i lost i would have probably bought in untill i won my money back or went bust, would it be bad to buy in with the same 20bb when shorthanded playing a slightly looser pre flop range using SSS?
    • cowvun
      cowvun
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.05.2010 Posts: 4
      Originally posted by Hahaownedlolz
      Originally posted by joecar
      Your not understanding the luck part, "but when you can tell its the right time" means nothing when you hit a bad run, 6BI is pretty bad. There is no right time with that loose of BRM.

      You spend hours grinding to increase your BR, why waste progress and possibly lose BI's in seconds.
      Think about it this way. Would phil ivey play $25/$50k against Dwan or Antonius? hell no.

      Would he play $25k/$50k against a rich businessman or a fish? I'd say there's a very good chance he would.
      Ivey would beast Antonius and Dwan though.
      But obviously he would prefer the rich businessman and fish.
    • wasy8
      wasy8
      Black
      Joined: 29.01.2009 Posts: 1,507
      Originally posted by Hahaownedlolz
      Think about it this way. Would phil ivey play $25/$50k against Dwan or Antonius? hell no.
      it's pretty well known that phil ivey will play anyone at any stakes they want. not too many people take him up on it though.
    • JackxxRatt
      JackxxRatt
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.07.2007 Posts: 116
      It's bad bankroll management but it's not a crime. If you're prepared to reload should you go busto or prepared to quit if you lose x amount then I dont see a problem. Is everyone who plays the weekly million perfectly rolled for it?, I somehow doubt it. If it's the only money you have and you want to stay alive then you shouldn't do it.
    • MatejM47
      MatejM47
      Black
      Joined: 21.01.2010 Posts: 1,193
      Well i dont see a problem taking shots or risking 1BI for a higher limit if you see very fishy opponent there. Like wcoop ME or wsop ME with 10k BI with 10k players, like 9k of those is definetly not rolled for it. Its just taking shots to win it big.

      Same in cash games, if lets say you play NL1k and you see a big fish on NL2k you can definetly go play him. You just have to be able to play your A game and set yourself a stop loss limit.

      However, in your case being happy about finding a fish on NL10 is definelty nothing to get excited about. If you were planning to risk only 1 stack trying to stack him thats fine, but i doubt you'd be able to stop playing that fish after losing 2 stacks due to suckouts, and you risk going broke for no reason whatsoever. The thing is you dont really need to risk it considering if you play 6 handed you usually get at least 2 idiots per table who got no idea what they're doing, so table selecting is not really that important.

      You can just wait till you get a decent roll, and you can also use more agressive BRM on lower limits where you have a way bigger edge on your opponents then when you move up to NL50 and higher. You can start playing NL10 with 15-20BI depending on your comfort lever, and decide to risk 3-4 stacks, and once you lose them move down again since you still have a decent roll for nl5 and grind it up again. However with only 6BI thats definetly a mistake since your chances of going broke are way to high.
    • holnrew
      holnrew
      Bronze
      Joined: 05.07.2010 Posts: 130
      The trouble is, if you do it once and succeed, you might do it again, with a better opponent and tilt and blow your bankroll. I've been in a similar situation.
    • andreibalint
      andreibalint
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.04.2009 Posts: 872
      I gave my opinion. And you have to know i'm right because otherwise you wouldn't ask. But sometimes i wonder why the hell i waste my time.

      Hey guys, keep in mind none of you is Ivey.

      Another one: why do you think big players like to deal the community cards multiple times? Hmmmm...
    • Hahaownedlolz
      Hahaownedlolz
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.04.2009 Posts: 1,755
      Originally posted by wasy8
      Originally posted by Hahaownedlolz
      Think about it this way. Would phil ivey play $25/$50k against Dwan or Antonius? hell no.
      it's pretty well known that phil ivey will play anyone at any stakes they want. not too many people take him up on it though.

      He wouldn't play HU4ROLLZ against pretty much anyone if he has any common sense (Ofcourse assuming The blinds are also appropriatly high. 100-500BB stack). So your statement is invalid. the point is he wouldn't play them for 1/6 of his bankroll.. If it's a player he absolutely crushes so badly that he'd have to have the worst luck in the world to lose the buy in he'd obviously be alot more tempted to try it imo. and probably should if you ask me.
    • 8979687
      8979687
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.11.2008 Posts: 2,225
      There is nothing wrong with trying to play this fish if you think it is +EV. It is a sensible risk
      as long as you know you are costing one BI and if you lose you just may have to move down
      a limit that much sooner if you run bad.

      If you are responsible enough to stop after one BI down, then rest assured you will be kicking
      yourself if you run bad playing at your normal limit next time you sit and have to move down.

      But thats a good thing because you were smart enough to stop and you set a stop loss.

      Most important factor is a stop loss.

      IDK wtf Phil has to do with you playing a fish for one BI.

      If you think it is +EV then go for it plain and simple.
    • noclaninator
      noclaninator
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.12.2008 Posts: 312
      Well I faced the same dillemma. An extremely terribad fish I was playing at NL100 and NL200 HU wanted me to play $2/$4. I was extremely tempted but I ended up saying no. This was the type of player who would tilt easily and then start raising 9-10bb with like 60% preflop. Here is the real answer though: look for more money through staking and other affiliates like pokerstrategy. Most other sites don't offer as good as pokerstrategy does but hey, money is money.
    • gedwashere91
      gedwashere91
      Bronze
      Joined: 20.07.2009 Posts: 2,387
      It really depends on how risk-averse you are. If you are willing to risk that sizeable chunk of your BR because you know you're edge is so huge, then go for it. If you aren't fully prepared to lose that chunk of your BR then don't. Yes, a +EV gamble is still gambling, but it is also still +EV :P