Prove to me poker isn't just luck ?

    • Donmecon
      Donmecon
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.05.2010 Posts: 38
      I have being playing poker for approximately 3 years and in that time I have changed the way I play significantly. I was very disciplined at the start, waiting for good cards and raising the suggested raises from all the books. I made a good profit.

      I now play with any two cards. I now raise with any two cards and not the suggested raises. I bluff often. I am what you would call loose aggressive player...a gambler. I make more money now.

      In those 3 years my conclusions are this :

      Poker is simply a game of luck !
      There is no evidence to prove otherwise !

      If you are a player who only plays with AA KK QQ JJ 1010 AKs AK AQs AQ AJs AJ and small pairs you will win nothing. The reason is, to win a tourney you need luck and if you play these hands you will never get any luck. If you went all in pre-flop and got called, the majority of the time with these hands you wouldn't get lucky. How can you when you have the best hand in the first place.

      The media hype up the Pros as great poker players and the public believe it. How can you be good at poker when its all luck. If you were to look at every hand that Joe Cada played last year to win the WSOP main event you would see he won the tourney because he had more luck than anyone else. He actually is a poor player but is now classed as a Pro because he does it for a living. Wouldn't you with 8 million or so in the bank !

      Poker is luck pure and simple.

      If you disagree then tell me why ?
  • 47 replies
    • Alficor1
      Alficor1
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      Joined: 16.06.2010 Posts: 7,291
      I think there are already like four thousand threads about this...
    • taavi1337
      taavi1337
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      Joined: 29.05.2009 Posts: 2,920
      http://www.pokertableratings.com/stars-player-search/nanonoko
    • Leito99
      Leito99
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.07.2009 Posts: 754
      play me heads up for 2-3 hours and ill prove it :p
    • cojonel
      cojonel
      Global
      Joined: 02.07.2008 Posts: 1,039
      rigged...
    • ZeMammuth
      ZeMammuth
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      Joined: 08.11.2008 Posts: 704
      I find it really funny when people post graphs of other players, while they can't post similar graphs of there own statistics which would actually be sufficient proof.
    • wasy8
      wasy8
      Black
      Joined: 29.01.2009 Posts: 1,507
      Originally posted by ZeMammuth
      I find it really funny when people post graphs of other players, while they can't post similar graphs of there own statistics which would actually be sufficient proof.
      lol seriously? there are several of us that could post our own winning graphs but nanonoko's is just so damn impressive and over such a huge sample size
    • One12ver
      One12ver
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.05.2008 Posts: 249
      Your right! In the short term poker is a game of luck and very few people will ever stick to it long enough to see the long term rewards.
      If you only plan on playing for a short time then play whatever way you want but if your going to play this game for the long run then you are better off playing only the the best starting hands and playing them well. :s_cool:

      2nd thing is no matter how well you play you will never show a profit if you´ve got tilt problems. Winning poker is not solely based on the cards one receives.
    • wasy8
      wasy8
      Black
      Joined: 29.01.2009 Posts: 1,507
      Originally posted by Donmecon
      The media hype up the Pros as great poker players and the public believe it. How can you be good at poker when its all luck. If you were to look at every hand that Joe Cada played last year to win the WSOP main event you would see he won the tourney because he had more luck than anyone else. He actually is a poor player but is now classed as a Pro because he does it for a living. Wouldn't you with 8 million or so in the bank !
      Joe Cada was an MTT pro and highstakes online cash game pro before his WSOP win. He was always ranked in the top 100 MTT players in the pocketfives.com rankings and had very consistent results.

      His final table looked 'donkish' because he got it in behind several times. But with his chipstack he actually played very, very well at the final table.

      You are right that if you stick top 10 hands and play like a nit preflop, but poor postflop, you won't win money. Poker's a dynamic game and the skill element comes with adapting to game conditions and not reading off a starting hand chart (which will help you beat nl2, but not much higher than that).
    • NightFrostaSS
      NightFrostaSS
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.10.2008 Posts: 5,255
      who cares what you think poker is anyway
    • ihufa
      ihufa
      Gold
      Joined: 18.03.2008 Posts: 3,323
      srsly prove it you guys
    • Wriggers
      Wriggers
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.07.2009 Posts: 3,250
      Case Study - Phil Ivey
    • aceonetheriver
      aceonetheriver
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.12.2008 Posts: 591
      Originally posted by Leito99
      play me heads up for 2-3 hours and ill prove it :p

      nuts ! +9999999


      skills
    • oblitron
      oblitron
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.01.2010 Posts: 238
      Originally posted by Donmecon
      I now play with any two cards. I make more money now.

      Poker is simply a game of luck !
      So, if poker is just luck as you say, then the only way to explain the fact that you're making a profit out of it is that you are better at... em... being lucky? You're luckier than the average poker player and that's it?

      And all these people writing books and articles and making videos on poker training are just some lucky people who pretend to have skill and have conned us all into "studying" to become poker players, when in (your) reality it's just a matter of luck?

      Wow. It all makes sense now.
    • bradomurder
      bradomurder
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.10.2008 Posts: 1,329
      you cant exaxctly prove it but my advice is this: dont ever bluff, value bet every good hand and you'll dominate. poker is easy just give people credit when they seem to be value bettting and bet when they seem weak. thats it. dont do anything else and you'll smash it.

      No hero calls
      no bluffs
      people call terribly when you've got a good hand and that's that. bluffiing is fun but it doessnt really work value bet = money in the bank
    • wasy8
      wasy8
      Black
      Joined: 29.01.2009 Posts: 1,507
      not ever bluffing will not win you any money against someone even remotely competent
    • neznanec21
      neznanec21
      Bronze
      Joined: 10.12.2009 Posts: 34
      Poker is rigged, the ones who deny that are in denial and should be shot on sight.
      If anyone thinks poker is a game of skill, they're wrong, there are no mathematical calculations involved, you can't read players hands, and you certainly can never play 72 unless you're Phil Hellmuth playing against Mike Matusow holding kings. Never.

      /sarcasm off
    • Hlynkinn
      Hlynkinn
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.06.2008 Posts: 4,998
      I have read endless of mathematical posts about how poker is not luck...

      one of my friends summed it up pretty well

      "Once you have the option of folding it becomes a game of skill"
    • vonki
      vonki
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 18.03.2008 Posts: 6,091
      I don't see a reason why we would be at all interested in trying to prove to you that poker isnt just luck?

      If you were clever enough and dedicated enough it would prove itself to you in time.
    • Zheelvern
      Zheelvern
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.10.2007 Posts: 704
      It's all luck. Now go to sleep.