Another question for Pzhon

    • kiromanAAKK
      kiromanAAKK
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.10.2009 Posts: 4,022
      Hi Coach,
      My most sincerely apology to bother you further with a matter that I thought was finally resolved. Once again I have to face some discrepancy between software and I am not sure if I am the cause of it with my wrong using of these tools.
      Please, would you be so kind (and patience) once again and help me to understand one more time this matter?

      The situation is five players in a pre-bubble SNG 9 handed with structure
      pay-out of 50%, 30%, 20%
      Blinds: 200/400/10
      and

      Player1: (SB) 1565 - 410
      Player2: (BB) 880 –210 (caller)
      Player3: (MP) 890 –10 (bettor)
      Player4: (CO) 8480 -10
      Player5: (BU) 1435 –10

      Equity needed: 28.08 (ICMExplorer)

      (Above is how exactly I have enter the date in the ICMExplorer)

      Equity needed: 17.78 (Equilator)

      The problem is that ICMExplorer give me as you may notice an Equity needed of 28.08 while for the Equilator the Equity needed is 17.78. Why that different?

      Note that I have used the Pre-flop All-in Tools of Equilator to calculate the equity needed to make a call.
      Thank you!
  • 4 replies
    • pzhon
      pzhon
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.06.2010 Posts: 1,151
      It looks like you reversed the blinds for the SB and BB when you typed them above compared to when you entered them into ICM Explorer. However, that's not the main issue.

      As far as I know, Equilator is not an ICM calculator. It is not capable of telling you how much equity you need to gain ICM equity. So, I'm not sure how you got 17.78% equity needed out of it.

      The 28.08% from ICM Explorer is the correct output for one ICM calculation.

      Fold: 470 chips, 0.064, SD: $11.49
      Win: 1990 chips, 0.2279
      Lose: 0 chips, 0
      Tie: 995 chips, 0.1262

      Equity needed: 28.08%
      Chip odds: 23.62%
      Risk premium: 4.46%
      Chips gained by marginal call: 88.81.
      Ties count as 55.37% of a win.
      SD of marginal call: $11.93.

      The chip odds are 23.62%, which means you are getting slightly better than 3:1 odds to call a push from the other short stack after posting nearly half of your stack in the big blind. The risk premium is only 4.46% on top of this, as you are not that risk-averse against the other short stack, so you need 28.08% equity against his range to call.

      Once you have that 28.08%, you enter that into Equilator along with your estimate of the pusher's range. Then Equilator will tell you what range you can call, probably 100% or close.
    • kiromanAAKK
      kiromanAAKK
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.10.2009 Posts: 4,022
      Hi Coach and thanks for your help. On the equilator where there is the equity box (in below part of it) there is a little calculator botton that stand for the equity needed calculator tools (or at least that what it said).

      So, we can stick with the date out the ICMExplorer whitout considerate the value given out by the equilator equity needed tools?
      Thx :heart:
    • pzhon
      pzhon
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.06.2010 Posts: 1,151
      That little calculator button does something very different. It does not apply to SNGs except when you are heads up. It does not involve the ICM at all, and assumes there is no risk aversion. Note that there is no place to put in the stacks of the other players. So, if you are trying to understand SNGs, ignore that button. Use the equity needed which is reported by ICM Explorer.
    • kiromanAAKK
      kiromanAAKK
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.10.2009 Posts: 4,022
      Great stuff!
      Thanks Coach :heart: