[NL20-NL50] NL50 SH QQ utg vs utg2 3b

    • Tim64
      Tim64
      Black
      Joined: 02.11.2008 Posts: 7,403
      Grabbed by Holdem Manager
      NL Holdem $0.50(BB) Replayer
      SB ($37.45)
      BB ($54.75)
      Hero ($66.30)
      UTG+1 ($50)
      CO ($50.75)
      BTN ($55.65)

      Dealt to Hero Q:spade: Q:diamond:

      Hero raises to $1.75, UTG+1 raises to $6, fold, fold, fold, fold, Hero calls $4.25

      FLOP ($12.75) 3:heart: 5:club: 6:club:

      Hero checks, UTG+1 bets $9, Hero folds

      UTG+1 wins $12.15

      utg+1 is 25/20, 197 hands, 3b: 3%. Kind of ugly spot. I almost think we can just fold pre?
      If we call, its just for sv? We dont really get the right odds and we are out of position.
      Probably wrong to call pre and fold on this flop, but if we call and villain bets turn again we have to fold (else we may just as well have 4b/broke pre)?

      thanks
  • 9 replies
    • aelfewulf
      aelfewulf
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.12.2009 Posts: 28
      OMG that so weak tight. Villain could have AK, KQ maybe even JJ, or semibluffing straights/flush.
      I would check-call and go for showdown vs an aggressive opponent.
    • Tim64
      Tim64
      Black
      Joined: 02.11.2008 Posts: 7,403
      Villain could have AK, KQ maybe even JJ,


      Well, KQ is not in the top 3% of hands, so unless we want to just ignore the stats, we have to attempt to remove some combinations of cards that are less likely. We are UTG and we get 3b by UTG2. Do you think you will often be up against KQ here?

      We don't know anything about villain's aggression factor.

      The problem with calling down turn and River is that we are just bluff catching. That might be the right approach against an aggressive opponent who re-raises frequently preflop with junk hands. But if we never give villain credit for having a stronger hand than ours (i.e. if you just want to exclude AA and KK from his range) then we may as well 4b and go broke preflop.

      If turn is, e.g. 9 :spade: we checked and villain bet again, say $20, what would you do?
    • Kaitz20
      Kaitz20
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.02.2007 Posts: 27,343
      197 hands is not that big sample size
      But if you really afraid KK/AA to see a lot of times then I´d likely b/c pf and c/c flop and decide on the turn if I want to c/rai
      You can find folds against some nit players but 25/20 generally isn´t not too nit that I´d not consider c/rai turn with my overpair
    • Tim64
      Tim64
      Black
      Joined: 02.11.2008 Posts: 7,403
      Ok, thanks.

      and decide on the turn if I want to c/rai


      what are the alternatives? I mean, if you don't c/rai, are you c/f? And how do you decide (assuming turn is blank card?).

      Thanks
    • N0pr3s3n7
      N0pr3s3n7
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 14.05.2009 Posts: 1,281
      Originally posted by Tim64
      Ok, thanks.

      and decide on the turn if I want to c/rai


      what are the alternatives? I mean, if you don't c/rai, are you c/f? And how do you decide (assuming turn is blank card?).

      Thanks
      to handjudge first:

      What's the point in just check/calling there since we don't like any turn like J,K,A,any club,(also 4,2,7 which could help us to get cheap showdown but also might work as somehow scare cards although if he bets them he should be always having KK+,although i think if he is pure bluffing there for some reason he will use the cards to blow us away)

      to Tim64:

      I like folding preflop versus such opponent no reason he will 3bet with "bluff" there I mean all his 3bet range UTG+1 vs UTG will be for value always.Besides the fact he has 3% 3bet makes it even easier fold you are ahead only of AK and you are dead against other hands.You can call for set value if anyother player behind you just cold calls.
    • DecMate
      DecMate
      Platinum
      Joined: 25.01.2009 Posts: 1,102
      I think this is just a silly spot to get into, if you think his range is that tight that you can't even call a c-bet then why call preflop?
    • Kaitz20
      Kaitz20
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.02.2007 Posts: 27,343
      Originally posted by Tim64
      Ok, thanks.

      and decide on the turn if I want to c/rai


      what are the alternatives? I mean, if you don't c/rai, are you c/f? And how do you decide (assuming turn is blank card?).

      Thanks
      basically his bet size, how quickly he bets and how comfortable he seems to be in his hand strength. If he bets any turn card close to pot I think it is easy fold since he has there most of the times KK/AA, but if he thinks first like 10 seconds and then fire up close to half potsize bet I think he can also have there JJ/AK and likely would call again or shove
    • Kaitz20
      Kaitz20
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.02.2007 Posts: 27,343
      Originally posted by N0pr3s3n7
      Originally posted by Tim64
      Ok, thanks.

      and decide on the turn if I want to c/rai


      what are the alternatives? I mean, if you don't c/rai, are you c/f? And how do you decide (assuming turn is blank card?).

      Thanks
      to handjudge first:

      What's the point in just check/calling there since we don't like any turn like J,K,A,any club,(also 4,2,7 which could help us to get cheap showdown but also might work as somehow scare cards although if he bets them he should be always having KK+,although i think if he is pure bluffing there for some reason he will use the cards to blow us away)

      to Tim64:

      I like folding preflop versus such opponent no reason he will 3bet with "bluff" there I mean all his 3bet range UTG+1 vs UTG will be for value always.Besides the fact he has 3% 3bet makes it even easier fold you are ahead only of AK and you are dead against other hands.You can call for set value if anyother player behind you just cold calls.
      since we´re not always going to c/f turn and he is not always going to bet turn with air. So with QQ I think it is quite easy decision just to call and see turn card and then decide. And even if we put player on KK/AA we have implied odds to call pf and hit our set and also we can eaisly be ahead since I don´t think that 25/20 isn´t going to 3-bet us with AK
    • Tim64
      Tim64
      Black
      Joined: 02.11.2008 Posts: 7,403
      k, thanks Kaitz20. Will try to be less nitty next time... ;)