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feedback for my coaching and anlys of the Hand you asked for

    • liverdracon
      Joined: 17.02.2006 Posts: 7,813
      So it would be nice, if you leave me some feedback. The next time I will probably just play 3 tables, but then analyze the different streets deeper.


      Party Poker, $0.50/$1 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 5 Players
      LegoPoker Hand History Converter

      CO: $198.13
      BTN: $99.42
      SB: $106.89
      Hero (BB): $98.96
      UTG: $100

      Pre-Flop: K:diamond: 6:spade: dealt to Hero (BB)
      2 folds, BTN calls $1, SB folds, Hero checks

      Flop: ($2.50) A:diamond: 6:diamond: 3:diamond: (2 Players)
      [color:red]Hero bets $2[/color], [color:red]BTN raises to $4[/color], [color:red]Hero raises to $14[/color], BTN calls $10

      Turn: ($30.50) 9:club: (2 Players)
      Hero checks, [color:red]BTN bets $20[/color], Hero folds

      Results: $30.50 Pot
      BTN mucked and WON $48.48 (+$33.48 NET)

      The main question is reraise flop or just call.

      Advantages calling:
      it is a correct pododds call
      we want to see a card on the turn as we are just drawing

      no implied odds at all.
      c/c turn sucks, as it exposes our hand

      Advantages reraising:
      we can finish the hand immediately.
      if he calls and we hit on the turn, there is much more money in the pot.

      if he reraises once again, we have to fold
      if we call an we don´t hit, it will expose our hand.

      So every line has its advantages and disadvantages. I was talking to some people and I think there is probably no correct line as it realy depends on villains holding. Obviously, if he holds monster as flush or set, a passiv ligne will do the best, if he let us drawing with correct potodds. When holds a weak ace, small pocket or if he just has air (even though against air we are ahead, I don´t like valuebetting my 6), finishing the hand directly is the best way for me, if he is able to fold a better, but still marginal hand.
  • 4 replies
    • chenny8888
      Joined: 03.10.2007 Posts: 19,324
      blockbet turn mb 1/4 pot and fold to reraise?

      he can't be sure you're on a flushdraw with how aggressively you played the flop, and there is no indication that he isn't holding the draw himself...

      a check and his bet behind doesn't indicate anything.

      not sure about flop play. playing draws aggressively is generally good though
    • Pacer357
      Joined: 18.04.2007 Posts: 1,807
      After so much aggression such a small bet would certainly expose our hand and show that we are not willing to build the pot much more so in my view blockbetting is the absolute worst line to take here.
    • Mriswith
      Joined: 21.11.2006 Posts: 331
      I attended the coaching and maybe I didn't get my point across in the discussion following this hand :

      imho the main question is _not_ whether to raise or call flop, but how to proceed if raising the flop.

      I liked the flop raise for the reasons stated, but not the check on the turn.

      Putting myself in villains boots :
      We're full stacked, yet didn't invest too much in this ( unraised ) pot so far, so hero's reraise might mean a lot of things - as could my minraise.
      While the turncard most likely is a blank, lots of rivercards will kill ne action.
      I just told hero I have a hand I like enough to call a 3bet on a 3s board IP.
      Now the turn is checked to me and I wonder, what kind of hand would 3bet this flop, then check the turn to me ?

      I'd expect any strong non-flush made hand not to give a freecard, rather playing b/f turn OOP. Hero obv is not in wa/wb mode, he wouldn't have raised the flop then, so he's unlikely to call me down.
      A decent player ( and I have no reason to assume hero is not ) willing to go all the way would grease the pot, since it'd be difficult for him to get it all in on the river, if I checked the turn behind - I have plenty left in relation to the pot and had to like my hand very much to call a massive overbet on the river. Hero might slowplay, but that's unlikely, as a lot of rivercards will shut down ne action.

      So, with any strong holding I'd expect hero to make a turnbet I'm likely to call, maybe about 1/2 ps, or a more smallish one which either could be to block or allow hero to come over the top if I reraised the turn. Since I've shown some strength on the flop, he wouldn't be overly worried of chasing me out with a reasonable bet.
      A bluff would either fire a 2nd barrel or just give up the hand.
      A marginal holding / draw might bet ( aggressive ), check ( passive ) or bet smallish ( block ).
      A player whom I know to check for bluff induce a lot might do so, but that'd be a bad spot for this kind of play.

      So, without this specific read ( inducing ) I wouldn't need to hold a particular strong hand to bet this turn as villain :

      - if hero was not too comfortable with his hand I most likely can push him off
      - if hero was drawing I won't give a freecard
      - if hero came over the top I have an easy fold
      - if I liked my hand so much I wanted to play for stacks, I'd rather get some money in now, since hero too has plenty left for 1 street.

      I think hero has to lead the turn after 3betting the flop, since this already turned hero's hand into a semibluff and here I think it's better to follow through.Checking is inviting villain to bet, and imho only is an option, if you're planning to call neway, c/f comes close to openfolding the turn.

      I don't think betting smallish would be a terrible play and give our hand away : it'd be on a 2s board w/ a FD, but here it's 3s already and hero can have the made flush already, so villain had to worry about being trapped by the nuts and drawing slim / dead if pushing. After all, hero 3bet a 3s flop and played solid this far, so a pure bluff is highly unlikely and villain had to give hero some credit for his play so far ( maybe not quite so much _after_ this hand though ).



      I enjoyed the coaching, but sometimes was worried if you were not too concerned with explaining previous hands / answering questions to pay enough attention to the actual hand. I really liked that you put extra effort in explaining your thoughts when playing rather than just to comment what you do.

      And well, and then there was 'gasping and moaning' !
      ( though I usually like this sounds coming from another - female in my specific case - person in rather different circumstances.. ;) )
      Just kidding - it wasn't distracting at all and best wishes for getting well soon !
    • liverdracon
      Joined: 17.02.2006 Posts: 7,813
      After rethinking the hand once again, I guess calling is the best way.
      Why? Simply I don´t need implied odds, I already have the proper odds to draw!!! Thats why admire intermediate or small stackes players. They just play according to the basic advices like odds and outs :) . Maybe I overplayed the hand a little bit in the heat of the coaching.

      Ok, how to proceed on the turn. Honestly, a good question. I agree with you that check turn ist a bad option and exposes my hand to much. On the other hand, I can´t rely on FE, as I think he won´t fold the hand, if I bet nor will I be able to continue if he raises me. Obviously, c/c would be against the rules of odds and outs.

      By just calling the flop, I play with odds and outs. Correct so far, but on the turn I can´t call a bet from his side. Same arguments as before.

      Conclusion: this hand sucks :)

      @ Mriswith

      maybe the moanings came from my babe, :D :D