[NL2-NL10] NL10 SH Rush - J7s BvB

    • StaticMoth
      StaticMoth
      Silver
      Joined: 22.05.2009 Posts: 2,642
      Hand converted with online PokerStrategy.com hand converter:

      Play hand

      $0.05/$0.1 No-Limit Hold'em (6 handed)

      Known players:
      SB:
      $13.04
      BB (Hero):
      $22.57
      MP2:
      $6.67
      MP3:
      $10.00
      CO:
      $3.28
      BU:
      $4.73


      Preflop: Hero is BB with J, 7.
      4 folds, SB raises to $0.30, Hero calls $0.20.

      Flop: ($0.6) T, A, 2 (2 players)
      SB bets $0.40, Hero raises to $0.80, SB calls $0.40.

      Turn: ($2.2) 5 (2 players)
      SB checks, Hero bets $1.00, SB calls $1.00.

      River: ($4.2) 8 (2 players)
      SB checks, Hero checks.

      Final Pot: $4.2.

      Results follow:

      Hero shows a flush, ace high(Js 7s).
      SB shows a pair of aces(Jh Ah).

      Hero wins with a flush, ace high(Js 7s).

      Villain relatively unknown (only 7 hands - 29/29/AF1.0)

      Should I valuebet the river vs a relatively passive player with a wide range? A smallish valuebet should get paid if he rivered a smallish flush.
  • 4 replies
    • MaestroOfZerg
      MaestroOfZerg
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.11.2008 Posts: 5,510
      Hi,


      Raise bigger on the flop, bet bigger on the turn.

      River check back is fine against that guy, his most likely hands are stuff like AxQs/AxKs, it's hard for him to call flop&turn with less than that and he'd probably have 3bet a flopped flush on the flop.

      I'm a bit confused by your question about passive players with wide ranges, since they don't usually start the hand by raising preflop and c-betting 2/3 on the flop with wide ranges. Just doesn't compute for me. I think pretty much everybody that is capable of playing the early streets like that will show up with a big flush rather than a small one on the river.


      Hope it helps.
    • StaticMoth
      StaticMoth
      Silver
      Joined: 22.05.2009 Posts: 2,642
      Originally posted by MaestroOfZerg
      Hi,


      Raise bigger on the flop, bet bigger on the turn.

      River check back is fine against that guy, his most likely hands are stuff like AxQs/AxKs, it's hard for him to call flop&turn with less than that and he'd probably have 3bet a flopped flush on the flop.

      I'm a bit confused by your question about passive players with wide ranges, since they don't usually start the hand by raising preflop and c-betting 2/3 on the flop with wide ranges. Just doesn't compute for me. I think pretty much everybody that is capable of playing the early streets like that will show up with a big flush rather than a small one on the river.


      Hope it helps.
      Yeah, I didn't think things quite through enough when writing :f_biggrin:
      I meant he's quite wide preflop & passive postflop, but since he cbet and called my raise, we can narrow down that range quite a bit.

      So in hindsight indeed = "his most likely hands are stuff like AxQs/AxKs"
      which makes my river check fine.

      I like to minraise flopped flushes cause it seems bluffy and I give villain an opportunity to come over the top to "protect" his TPTK+ etc at which point he might already feel pot commited with any :spade: he has there next to his A. And I do expect him to have any Ax :spade: there since it's BvB.

      If I make a normal raise right off the bat villain usually folds, especially him being so passive post flop I'd expect him to fold quite often there.
    • dallievas
      dallievas
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.11.2007 Posts: 822
      River check back is fine against that guy, his most likely hands are stuff like AxQs/AxKs, it's hard for him to call flop&turn with less than that and he'd probably have 3bet a flopped flush on the flop.

      I have to agree that passives cbet pretty narrow range,but they have to struggle to fold tp even on horrible boards.If we think about hand combos he can have river check is missed valuebet opportunity.AK-12combos,AQ-12 combos,total 24, AxKs-4combos ,AxQs -4 combos,total 8 we're loosing to higher flush.So we win 16/24 or 66% and loose 33%.If we include other combos we beat like sets,2p we can valuebet thinly prety safely.
      GL
      :)
    • MaestroOfZerg
      MaestroOfZerg
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.11.2008 Posts: 5,510
      Hi,


      True enough, it's just gross to mix in a new player type with an already established line. If we assumed villain had potted the flop or made some kind of small bet, both of which look less taggish than 2/3 pot, I'd probably agree with you. As it is, I can't think of his range as "wide" really. That said Hero bet the turn quite small and minraised the flop so I guess this could potentially price villain into calling down with more top pairs.

      Overall if we just give no credit whatsoever to how taggish his line looks on early streets and just assume his range is "wide", I guess we can valuebet the river as dallievas suggested.


      Hope it helps.