I don't know the rules!

    • jbpatzer
      jbpatzer
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.11.2009 Posts: 6,944
      Someone help me out here.

      It's the three man bubble of a 6 max SnG. Winner gets 0.65, second place gets 0.35, third place gets nothing.

      Everyone pushes all in. The big stack wins and gets 0.65 and then the 0.35 goes to the second biggest stack. This I understand. But what if the 2nd and 3rd stacks are equal? e.g. 600 chips each, everyone pushes all in, there's a clear winner, how is the 2nd place prize divided up. Is it 0.175 each, or does the better hand get the lot?
  • 30 replies
    • Bigniux
      Bigniux
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.01.2009 Posts: 2,098
      dunno about prizes distribution, but when there's odd number of chips in the pot and it's chopped pot, then the player with worse position gets more chips. So maybe, same for prizes.
    • pzhon
      pzhon
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.06.2010 Posts: 1,151
      I don't know. This bothers me, too, and it means that I try to avoid having examples where the stacks of two players who might be eliminated simultaneously are equal, at least on the bubble or later.

      Robert's Rules of Poker do not cover this. Rule 35 for tournament play only covers multiple eliminations with unequal stacks. Many online sites deviate from Robert's Rules anyway.

      One rule I have heard is that the ordering is based on the seat number relative to the button. This is also used to determine who gets the odd chip in a split pot in live play. However, I'm not sure who is favored.

      I think you can test what is built into the Nash calculator. There is a discontinuity on the overcall range when the overcaller goes from the 3rd stack to the second stack involved. So, if you increase the overcaller's stack, is the range left-continuous, right-continuous, or neither?
    • Fagin
      Fagin
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.05.2008 Posts: 544
      Originally posted by jbpatzer
      Someone help me out here.

      It's the three man bubble of a 6 max SnG. Winner gets 0.65, second place gets 0.35, third place gets nothing.

      Everyone pushes all in. The big stack wins and gets 0.65 and then the 0.35 goes to the second biggest stack. This I understand. But what if the 2nd and 3rd stacks are equal? e.g. 600 chips each, everyone pushes all in, there's a clear winner, how is the 2nd place prize divided up. Is it 0.175 each, or does the better hand get the lot?
      It seems obvious that the best hand wins - this is fundamental in poker. If the biggest stack wins with the best hand then that player gets all the chips and wins the tourney. 2nd place, and the 2nd place prize, goes to the player with the 2nd best hand (or the better hand of the 2 remaining players).

      If the 2 remaining players have equally ranked hands, then the prize is split equally between them. In your example where the split would result in a prize sum containing a fraction of a cent, or penny, the prize would be split with the player in the worst position (first after the dealer of the two players) getting 0.18 and the other player getting 0.17.

      I hope this is clear enough.
    • jbpatzer
      jbpatzer
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      Joined: 22.11.2009 Posts: 6,944
      Originally posted by pzhon
      I don't know.
      :f_o:
    • jbpatzer
      jbpatzer
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.11.2009 Posts: 6,944
      Originally posted by Fagin

      It seems obvious that the best hand wins - this is fundamental in poker. If the biggest stack wins with the best hand then that player gets all the chips and wins the tourney. 2nd place, and the 2nd place prize, goes to the player with the 2nd best hand (or the better hand of the 2 remaining players).

      If the 2 remaining players have equally ranked hands, then the prize is split equally between them. In your example where the split would result in a prize sum containing a fraction of a cent, or penny, the prize would be split with the player in the worst position (first after the dealer of the two players) getting 0.18 and the other player getting 0.17.
      No, it goes by stack size for 2nd and 3rd, not hand strength. Hence my confusion.
    • jbpatzer
      jbpatzer
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.11.2009 Posts: 6,944
      I know how to test this. Let's 6 of us sit down at a $1 super turbo on FT, all go all in first hand, and see who ends up with the money. Seriously, this is the only way! Anyone up for it?
    • jbpatzer
      jbpatzer
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.11.2009 Posts: 6,944
      Originally posted by pzhon

      I think you can test what is built into the Nash calculator. There is a discontinuity on the overcall range when the overcaller goes from the 3rd stack to the second stack involved. So, if you increase the overcaller's stack, is the range left-continuous, right-continuous, or neither?
      I agree, but I don't want to know this. I want to know what happens in practice. :f_frown:
    • Waiboy
      Waiboy
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      Joined: 18.09.2008 Posts: 4,877
      Clearly a perplexing question when the coach edits their post 1287 times(s). :f_eek:
    • Bigniux
      Bigniux
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      Joined: 09.01.2009 Posts: 2,098
      Originally posted by Waiboy
      Clearly a perplexing question when the coach edits their post 1287 times(s). :f_eek:
      lol, are all these types of posts sarcastic or you guys just don't get the thing? :D
    • jbpatzer
      jbpatzer
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.11.2009 Posts: 6,944
      Originally posted by Bigniux
      Originally posted by Waiboy
      Clearly a perplexing question when the coach edits their post 1287 times(s). :f_eek:
      lol, are all these types of posts sarcastic or you guys just don't get the thing? :D
      I understand pzhon's signature, but the rest I don't get.
    • Waiboy
      Waiboy
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      Joined: 18.09.2008 Posts: 4,877
      Originally posted by Bigniux
      Originally posted by Waiboy
      Clearly a perplexing question when the coach edits their post 1287 timeS(s). :f_eek:
      lol, are all these types of posts sarcastic or you guys just don't get the thing? :D
      Clearer? Although I guess that's part of the irony. Which is a concept I don't understand at all.
    • jbpatzer
      jbpatzer
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.11.2009 Posts: 6,944
      Aha! Timesssssssssss(s). Super. Feel we may be drifting off question a little here. I really do seriously want to find out the answer. :rolleyes:
    • Waiboy
      Waiboy
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.09.2008 Posts: 4,877
      Originally posted by jbpatzer
      Aha! Timesssssssssss(s). Super. Feel we may be drifting off question a little here. I really do seriously want to find out the answer. :rolleyes:
      Cans I suggests you emails supports at the pokers rooms wheres you play? That will be definitive for that room at the leasts(s).
    • Bigniux
      Bigniux
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.01.2009 Posts: 2,098
      Originally posted by Waiboy
      Originally posted by Bigniux
      Originally posted by Waiboy
      Clearly a perplexing question when the coach edits their post 1287 timeS(s). :f_eek:
      lol, are all these types of posts sarcastic or you guys just don't get the thing? :D
      Clearer? Although I guess that's part of the irony. Which is a concept I don't understand at all.
      it just seems that people take that edit count as real thing, not as signature. So it's either sarcastic post or misunderstanding ;)

      P.S. It took me a while to find out that this is signature, lol :f_biggrin:
    • jbpatzer
      jbpatzer
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.11.2009 Posts: 6,944
      Originally posted by Waiboy
      Originally posted by jbpatzer
      Aha! Timesssssssssss(s). Super. Feel we may be drifting off question a little here. I really do seriously want to find out the answer. :rolleyes:
      Cans I suggests you emails supports at the pokers rooms wheres you play? That will be definitive for that room at the leasts(s).
      Doh! Why didn't I thinks of that? (Rhetorical question) :f_thumbsup:
    • Waiboy
      Waiboy
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.09.2008 Posts: 4,877
      Originally posted by Bigniux
      Originally posted by Waiboy
      Originally posted by Bigniux
      Originally posted by Waiboy
      Clearly a perplexing question when the coach edits their post 1287 timeS(s). :f_eek:
      lol, are all these types of posts sarcastic or you guys just don't get the thing? :D
      Clearer? Although I guess that's part of the irony. Which is a concept I don't understand at all.
      it just seems that people take that edit count as real thing, not as signature. So it's either sarcastic post or misunderstanding ;)

      P.S. It took me a while to find out that this is signature, lol :f_biggrin:
      A couple of things tip it off. One is the extra "s", one is the font, one is the fact the edit was 23 hours prior to the original post, one is the amount of time it would take to edit a couple of paragraphs of text 1287 times(s).
    • Waiboy
      Waiboy
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.09.2008 Posts: 4,877
      Originally posted by jbpatzer
      Originally posted by Waiboy
      Originally posted by jbpatzer
      Aha! Timesssssssssss(s). Super. Feel we may be drifting off question a little here. I really do seriously want to find out the answer. :rolleyes:
      Cans I suggests you emails supports at the pokers rooms wheres you play? That will be definitive for that room at the leasts(s).
      Doh! Why didn't I thinks of that? (Rhetorical question) :f_thumbsup:
      Occasionally it is an advantage being too stupid to work things out for oneself. :f_confused:
    • jbpatzer
      jbpatzer
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.11.2009 Posts: 6,944
      I emailed FT and Pokerstars. Nothing from FT yet, but an immediate response from Pokerstars!

      ------------------------
      To answer your question, if these players started the hand with an identical
      number of chips, and they tie for the same rank, any prizes due to those
      players will be equally distributed between them. So, they would indeed
      receive $0.175 each.
      -------------------------

      and this is from their web site


      If two or more players are eliminated on the same hand, a player with more chips at the start of the hand finishes higher than a player with fewer chips. If all players started the hand with an identical number of chips, all players tie for that rank, and any prizes due to those players will be equally distributed between them.

      --------------------------

      And after I asked for them to make it crystal clear...

      Thank you again for contacting PokerStars.

      If all players start the last hand with an equal amount of chips and player
      1 wins that hand then player 1 will get $0.65. Both player 2 and player 3
      will get $0.175 as they share second place. The hand strength is not taken
      into consideration here. So even if player 2 shows a better hand than player
      3 in that last hand they will still share second place.

      I hope that helps. Please contact us again should you have any further
      questions.

      Regards,

      Dana F
      PokerStars Support Team

      ---------------------------

      That's pretty clear now I think.
    • Fagin
      Fagin
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.05.2008 Posts: 544
      My original reply was based on how I have seen things done in numerous live games, not on internet based games.

      So what pokerstars are saying is that if two players with equal stacks are eliminated on the same hand the one with the straight gets the same prize/place as the one with A high?

      That just seems wrong to me. As I say my experience in these things is based primarily on live tournament experience but surely the better hand wins?
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