Coin Flip

    • Evante
      Evante
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.12.2009 Posts: 833
      When is a bad idea to go for a coin flip?

      I am new to SNG i am playing turbo 2.2 180 man at PS
  • 22 replies
    • pogodon
      pogodon
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      Joined: 23.07.2010 Posts: 1,210
      when your heads up
    • Atoks
      Atoks
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      Joined: 01.06.2008 Posts: 1,354
      Originally posted by pogodon
      when your heads up
      Incorrect. In heads up it's OK to take a coinflip whenever u have 20BB or less.

      In general u wouldn't want to coinflip at the start of a tournament, but only if u feel u have an edge over a majority of the field. If ur playing MTT SnGs u generally don't mind taking coinflips at any stage of the tournament since u'll need more chips to win the game, just don't be too eager to stick it in against players u suspect are tight with hands like AQ or TT in the early stage.
    • pogodon
      pogodon
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      Joined: 23.07.2010 Posts: 1,210
      so if yours heads up in the final table of the wsop and you have pocket 8s and your opponet go's all in you put him on AK would your risk winning a bracelt on a coin flip, pisht
    • Jackalof
      Jackalof
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.06.2008 Posts: 1,462
      88 vs AK for the title? Yea, go broke always. Or would you prefer waiting for aces? :f_p:
    • ihufa
      ihufa
      Gold
      Joined: 18.03.2008 Posts: 3,323
      88 vs AK is in favor of 88 and adding in the blinds and ante i'd be an easy call unless ur like 50bb+ deep
    • Atoks
      Atoks
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      Joined: 01.06.2008 Posts: 1,354
      Originally posted by pogodon
      so if yours heads up in the final table of the wsop and you have pocket 8s and your opponet go's all in you put him on AK would your risk winning a bracelt on a coin flip, pisht
      That a big fat LOL at u. I don't mind fish playing the HU against me as if they're playing at the WSOP FT. I'll happily scoop up the extra moniez that little brainstorm will collect for me.
    • pogodon
      pogodon
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      Joined: 23.07.2010 Posts: 1,210
      well since 2003 the majority of people making the final table of the wsop are amateurs so you could easily compare them to the players who play in a mtt or stt on poker stars or tilt so why would you out last say 600 players to be heads up in a final table only to risk your victory on a coin flip
    • Aizeral
      Aizeral
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      Joined: 01.03.2010 Posts: 17
      when would you "risk your victory" then? When youre 100% to win the hand?
    • pogodon
      pogodon
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      Joined: 23.07.2010 Posts: 1,210
      Originally posted by Aizeral
      when would you "risk your victory" then? When youre 100% to win the hand?
      i dont know about you but when i play heads up i tend not to RISK victory usualy the best course of action is having the nuts
    • Aizeral
      Aizeral
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.03.2010 Posts: 17
      I agree, the best course of action is to have the nuts, but to bet only with the nuts through an entire heads up will not be good imo. pSeaking from a personal point of view (and others may step in and correct me here if needed), it leads to a few problems:

      a) if you dont hit the nuts enough the blinds will eat you.
      b) you become very predictable and tight
      c) any villan worth his salt will see you only bet with the nuts and destroy you.
      d) long term it wont work.
    • pogodon
      pogodon
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      Joined: 23.07.2010 Posts: 1,210
      obvuiously your not going to just bet when you have the nuts i mean go all in with the nuts but honestly how many people would go all in with pair off 88 in a heads up final table most times this only happens when players are tired or inexperienced
    • Aizeral
      Aizeral
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.03.2010 Posts: 17
      Ok, so assuming youd only go all in with the nuts, youd maybe match a villan all in with KK/AA only preflop? Surely that would be a loser long term? Anyone on the WSOP final table is sure to notice such a reluctance to all in and take advantage of that.
    • Jackalof
      Jackalof
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      Joined: 08.06.2008 Posts: 1,462
      well since 2003 the majority of people making the final table of the wsop are amateurs


      That is just not true. Also, 88 is easy stackoff in HU unless you have like 100BB each. Or do you suggest playing this hand postflop? Or even folding pre? :f_frown:
    • Sasa1234
      Sasa1234
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.05.2008 Posts: 298
      Originally posted by pogodon
      obvuiously your not going to just bet when you have the nuts i mean go all in with the nuts but honestly how many people would go all in with pair off 88 in a heads up final table most times this only happens when players are tired or inexperienced
      I would go all in if i have 25-30 bb or less. It is EV+ to go busto in this circumstances even if you have huge advantage over fish.

      I'm too lazy to do math but on average you won't get better hand in 30 hands(this is important if you have 20 bb, less if you count sb) and you will blind out to death.

      Raise/folding with 88 is really bad IMO. Not raising 88...I thing you know it's even worse. Not to mention that villain will often call with worse hands.
    • Atoks
      Atoks
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      Joined: 01.06.2008 Posts: 1,354
      Honestly, ur over complicating the matter. How often do u assume people at the WSOP FT find themselves in a position that would pit AK vs. 77-99 PF? there's several ways to play it and it will very very rarely go AI PF, unless both players are very aggro or they have about 20BB each. In any case, 88 is too good of a hand not to play aggressively in tournaments where u want and need chips.
    • ihufa
      ihufa
      Gold
      Joined: 18.03.2008 Posts: 3,323
      what everyone is forgetting is that pogodon lacks any kind of understanding of heads up nlhe.

      and since risking all the marbles with a hand that is not the best hands means that you might lose, he can easily write that off his repetoir of good moves.

      meanwhile going all in with the best hand possible means that you can not lose. therefore we add this to our list of good moves.

      whenever we're in doubt we look at our list for answers.
    • Atoks
      Atoks
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      Joined: 01.06.2008 Posts: 1,354
      Originally posted by ihufa
      what everyone is forgetting is that pogodon lacks any kind of understanding of heads up nlhe.

      My read is that he recently folded 88 in a spot where he was facing a 3Bet and now regrets not stacking off with 88.
    • pogodon
      pogodon
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.07.2010 Posts: 1,210
      how do i lack game you think because you ar a platnium person that makes you a better player? just u have more mioney then me and i would never in my life call an all in with any pair lower then Jacks on a final table and jacks id still be contemplating sure you can steal blinds and raises by pushing with the hands but if you would honestly call an all in on HU final table with a smelly pair of 8s and consider it the best option i dont know how you are platnium moremoney then brains probaly
    • Aizeral
      Aizeral
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.03.2010 Posts: 17
      Against AK 88 has roughly the same equity as JJ, or even QQ?
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