ITM% and ROI%

  • 9 replies
    • Jehudas
      Jehudas
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.05.2008 Posts: 207
      just guessing:
      around 26% ITM and ROI of around 8-15%...
    • Ramble
      Ramble
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.11.2008 Posts: 1,421
      I'm definitely not the measuring stick you want to compare to... I'm just a hobby player who hasn't studied the game enough or developed enough discipline yet... but thought it would be interesting to compare results with others...

      I play almost exclusively regular speed 9-man SnG's.

      $1 Games: ~300
      $2 Games: ~450
      $5 Games: ~550

      My total ITM%: 40.5%
      My total ROI% (excluding rake-back and bonuses): 4.34%
    • pzhon
      pzhon
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.06.2010 Posts: 1,151
      The ROIs achieved by the top players have fallen as games have gotten tougher and multitabling has gotten easier. Being able to multitable means you might choose to have a lower ROI on many more tables, although multitabling too much can make it harder to learn. That your opponents can multitable means that there are many more regs pumping money out of the games. Even a player who loses slightly is bad to have at your tables because you need opponents to lose more than the rake so that you can profit.

      You can still find some guides to SNGs which are based on 4-tabling the 2007 games, which were softer than today's games. It is useful to get data like Ramble's, but it takes a very large volume for the ROIs to be reliable. In fact, most people who report an ROI of 10% just ran well -- it's not a big surprise to run 5% over your true ROI for 4000 tournaments. The Sharkscope leader boards are good sources of information. You can look up the players with the greatest total profits for 2010 for various game types and stake levels. You might not be able to pick out the exact stake level you want, but you can see the players winning the most within a range. Then look up how those players are doing. If you subscribe (even for a fixed number of searches, a good deal) then you can do advanced searches which are filtered to particular games such as 18 player SNGs.

      For example, the player at the top of the "Any game 2 or 3 tables -- $5.01-$15 (entry) -- 2010 total profit" leader board mainly plays $15+$1 18-player NLHE turbos on PokerStars. This year, he has had an 8% ROI over 24k games at that level. Of course, this player is at the top of the leader board, and his results should not be called typical. With a little work, you can see how many tables he plays at a time, and how many hours per day.

      Some semiprofessional players also blog about poker. They sometimes post their screen names which you can Sharkscope as well. You can also find screen names of players taking the game somewhat seriously in threads on other strategy forums.
    • Ramble
      Ramble
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.11.2008 Posts: 1,421
      Originally posted by pzhon
      This post has been edited 1287 time(s), it was last edited by pzhon: Today, 01:04.
      1287 times... WTF?!?!?
    • lennonac
      lennonac
      Global
      Joined: 02.05.2009 Posts: 1,421
      Originally posted by Ramble
      Originally posted by pzhon
      This post has been edited 1287 time(s), it was last edited by pzhon: Today, 01:04.
      1287 times... WTF?!?!?
      Another one bytes the dust
    • onepark
      onepark
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.07.2009 Posts: 970
      Originally posted by lennonac
      Originally posted by Ramble
      Originally posted by pzhon
      This post has been edited 1287 time(s), it was last edited by pzhon: Today, 01:04.
      1287 times... WTF?!?!?
      Another one bytes the dust

      lol lennonac u r always step a head of me
    • dashe
      dashe
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.04.2009 Posts: 26
      Thanks, also, Is there such a thing like ratio between ROI and ITM ?
      I mean if you play tighter you would normally reach ITM more often than if you would play more loose right ? But then more often you would not have a big stack which you can use to your advantage. Result of that would be lower ROI ?
      Or do we compensate having smaller stack with our massive edge/skill playing 2 or 3 handed ? :)
    • pzhon
      pzhon
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.06.2010 Posts: 1,151
      The ITM percentage is not important. In large MTTs, yoru ITM percentage might indicate whether you are playing a high variance style versus a low variance style. In a STT or small multitable SNG, your variance is primarily determined by the prize structure, not your playing style, and there is remarkably little variation between players.
    • Jehudas
      Jehudas
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.05.2008 Posts: 207
      Originally posted by onepark
      Originally posted by lennonac
      Originally posted by Ramble
      Originally posted by pzhon
      This post has been edited 1287 time(s), it was last edited by pzhon: Today, 01:04.
      1287 times... WTF?!?!?
      Another one bytes the dust

      lol lennonac u r always step a head of me

      i think he meant to be funny and this is his signature :P Actually I would have preferred 1337 times... :s_cool: