The 12s are RIGGED

  • 20 replies
    • BOBOsvk
      BOBOsvk
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      Joined: 14.02.2010 Posts: 2,505
      lifetime or didnt happen :s_cool:
    • gedwashere91
      gedwashere91
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      Joined: 20.07.2009 Posts: 2,387
      I stole your ROI


      My $12s graph
    • Donkey111
      Donkey111
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      Joined: 20.02.2010 Posts: 36
      EV doesn't completely work for SNG: let's assume you have the biggest stack you are 1 man away to the bubble. You shove with AK, the second biggest stack calls with Q2o, catches a pair and you end up crippled.

      Then you complain on a forum that 12s is rigged and show how below EV you run while in reality you just suck.

      Not that you actually suck, I have no idea how you play but you shouldn't complain how rigged poker is by showing an EV line which only tells part of the story.
    • wasy8
      wasy8
      Black
      Joined: 29.01.2009 Posts: 1,507
      Originally posted by Donkey111
      EV doesn't completely work for SNG: let's assume you have the biggest stack you are 1 man away to the bubble. You shove with AK, the second biggest stack calls with Q2o, catches a pair and you end up crippled.

      Then you complain on a forum that 12s is rigged and show how below EV you run while in reality you just suck.

      Not that you actually suck, I have no idea how you play but you shouldn't complain how rigged poker is by showing an EV line which only tells part of the story.
      what? there is nothing in that hand that makes you 'suck'
    • alejandrosh
      alejandrosh
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      Joined: 02.07.2008 Posts: 4,346
      Originally posted by Donkey111
      EV doesn't completely work for SNG: let's assume you have the biggest stack you are 1 man away to the bubble. You shove with AK, the second biggest stack calls with Q2o, catches a pair and you end up crippled.

      Then you complain on a forum that 12s is rigged and show how below EV you run while in reality you just suck.

      Not that you actually suck, I have no idea how you play but you shouldn't complain how rigged poker is by showing an EV line which only tells part of the story.
    • Donkey111
      Donkey111
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      Joined: 20.02.2010 Posts: 36
      In a vacuum, I wouldn't attack the second biggest stack at the bubble stage with a push.
    • alejandrosh
      alejandrosh
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      Joined: 02.07.2008 Posts: 4,346
      Originally posted by Donkey111
      In a vacuum, I wouldn't attack the second biggest stack at the bubble stage with a push.
      why? he has to call ultra tight ?(

      even if it was wrong to abuse the bubble (lol?) it has nothing to do with running 40 bi's under EV.
    • Donkey111
      Donkey111
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      Joined: 20.02.2010 Posts: 36
      Originally posted by alejandrosh
      why? he has to call ultra tight ?(

      even if it was wrong to abuse the bubble (lol?) it has nothing to do with running 40 bi's under EV.
      I agree, he should call very tight. But he is reckless... Anyway, I don't want to discuss a half baked example.

      What I am trying to say is that you can be running under EV, not just because you were unlucky but because you made strategic mistakes in the first place, for example, by shoving when it was strategically incorrect to do so. Being unlucky is only part of the story.
    • wasy8
      wasy8
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      Joined: 29.01.2009 Posts: 1,507
      you can't state a ridiculous example and say, "sorry, i don't wanna discuss it"

      i would like you to find a hand example where wiz says it is incorrect to shove AK into another big stack when you have him covered.

      good luck.
    • lessthanthreee
      lessthanthreee
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      Joined: 30.06.2009 Posts: 16,300
      now we know why he chose the screen-name 'Donkey111'.

      I suggest you read some SnG strategy and look at some large sample STT graphs to see what the red-line actually means for STT players.
    • lessthanthreee
      lessthanthreee
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      Joined: 30.06.2009 Posts: 16,300
      trust me, its not just the 12s that are rigged :(
    • elhh82
      elhh82
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      Joined: 03.09.2008 Posts: 6,838
      Originally posted by wasy8
      i would like you to find a hand example where wiz says it is incorrect to shove AK into another big stack when you have him covered.

      good luck.


      :D :D :D
    • wasy8
      wasy8
      Black
      Joined: 29.01.2009 Posts: 1,507
      heh nice.

      however its because of how small the blinds are in comparison to stacks...as to why wiz doesn't like an open shove.

      minraising seems optimal here
    • wasy8
      wasy8
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      Joined: 29.01.2009 Posts: 1,507
      also a challenge - find one where you have 10bb or less in that spot.
    • pogodon
      pogodon
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      Joined: 23.07.2010 Posts: 1,210
      what is that thing that shows you what to do it the position you were in with AK
    • wasy8
      wasy8
      Black
      Joined: 29.01.2009 Posts: 1,507
      Originally posted by pogodon
      what is that thing that shows you what to do it the position you were in with AK
      sng wiz
    • Donkey111
      Donkey111
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      Joined: 20.02.2010 Posts: 36
      Originally posted by wasy8
      you can't state a ridiculous example and say, "sorry, i don't wanna discuss it"
      The problem is not that my example is ridiculous, it is incomplete. We can each make assumptions, both be correct yet argue endlessly. So let's stop now. My fault for not giving an accurate example with stack sizes, position, etc.
    • MatejM47
      MatejM47
      Black
      Joined: 21.01.2010 Posts: 1,193
      Well when i played SnGs i actually had a guy call me blind vs blind with 22 while we were both super big stacks and one guy had 1.5bb left and the 4th guy had like 3bb or w/e. So against a guy thats willing to call you with any PP you can fold AK in a spot like this. ICM doesn't work vs him since he doesn't call with the range's ICM is assuming his calling with.
    • lennonac
      lennonac
      Global
      Joined: 02.05.2009 Posts: 1,421
      Originally posted by MatejM47
      Well when i played SnGs i actually had a guy call me blind vs blind with 22 while we were both super big stacks and one guy had 1.5bb left and the 4th guy had like 3bb or w/e. So against a guy thats willing to call you with any PP you can fold AK in a spot like this. ICM doesn't work vs him since he doesn't call with the range's ICM is assuming his calling with.
      ICM works against any opponent
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