[NL20-NL50] nl50 Rush - QQ - 3b pot

    • Tim64
      Tim64
      Black
      Joined: 02.11.2008 Posts: 7,403
      Grabbed by Holdem Manager
      NL Holdem $0.50(BB) Replayer
      Hero ($56.60)
      BB ($60.90)
      UTG ($82.70)
      UTG+1 ($116)
      CO ($61)
      BTN ($208)

      Dealt to Hero Q:diamond: Q:heart:

      fold, UTG+1 raises to $1.50, fold, fold, Hero raises to $5.75, fold, UTG+1 calls $4.25

      FLOP ($12) 4:club: 9:heart: 6:diamond:

      Hero bets $8.50, UTG+1 calls $8.50

      TURN ($29) 4:club: 9:heart: 6:diamond: 9:diamond:

      Hero checks, UTG+1 checks

      RIVER ($29) 4:club: 9:heart: 6:diamond: 9:diamond: 8:heart:

      Hero bets $13, UTG+1 raises to $102 (AI), Hero calls $29.35 (AI)

      villain reg 18/15/2, 905 hs. fold vs 3b 89%
      Assuming villain calls 3b with pps only, maybe AKs in position.

      Assume calls on flop TT+ and any sets he may have hit. I dont bet turn as it doesnt change anything so I am playing wawb. On river I saw safe vbet. Should I be folding to the raise? I would assume villain usually gets it in with AA/KK pre so hes only repping sets here...

      thanks
  • 5 replies
    • mrxLT
      mrxLT
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.09.2008 Posts: 435
      Hi, what would you do if villain 4bets pre? You would shove and go broke. So when you see safe flop you should be happy to bet bet get it in. If villain was set mining he is making mistake in the long run imo. And if hes traping AA, KK here hes making mistake also, because sure your 3b looks strong and you likely have a hand that you will valuetown yourself. But sometimes you will have AK and hes not getting enough value on low board and sometimes you will have QQ and the board will be A or K high - missing value again.
      So in short im bet/calling turn and shoving river if needed.
    • Tim64
      Tim64
      Black
      Joined: 02.11.2008 Posts: 7,403
      Hi mrxLT,

      Thanks for your response - it's helpful. In general I agree with you - we should basically be going broke without overcards in 3b pot with hand as strong as QQ.

      Only point I want to make is this: we can't use mistake by villain to justify mistake by hero.

      So, for example sometimes we see shortstackers set-mining. We know they make a mistake long term but, if we know - e.g. from reads - that they have a set we should be willing to fold (even though they made a mistake). In fact, if we find a way of avoiding paying them off, then the mistake they make is even bigger. ;)
    • geoelt
      geoelt
      Platinum
      Joined: 13.10.2009 Posts: 2,541
      thought over it agin, what i wrote wasnt too good i think now :D ignore if u read :D
    • Kaitz20
      Kaitz20
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.02.2007 Posts: 27,343
      lol @ geoelt.
      I think you really don´t achieve diamond status if you don´t know anything about cash games :) , so your posts are always welcome here

      about the hand:
      I would likely played the same way. Maybe also consider b/c turn, since I think he really hasn´t there a lot 9x hands (unless it is 99), so I´d be quite happy b/c turn
      he isn´t really going to shove river too often TT and likely also not JJ, so it is question if he need that he has to turn smt like 55 into bluff if he even called that pf and now shoving river. Mostly it is for value and if you´re not unsure which hands player b/c pf then you can also c/c river consider you checked turn, so he can easily put you on AK and valuebet whatever he has.
      If you bet then b/c is likely better than b/f. At least you gain some information how he plays his hands both pf and postflop
    • Tim64
      Tim64
      Black
      Joined: 02.11.2008 Posts: 7,403
      Ok, thanks. Was 99 this time.