[NL2-NL10] NL4 SH AK PF against 4bet

    • SPeedFANat1c
      SPeedFANat1c
      Gold
      Joined: 04.01.2009 Posts: 5,059
      Grabbed by Holdem Manager
      NL Holdem $0.04(BB) Replayer
      SB ($6.01)
      BB ($0.84)
      UTG ($4.15)
      UTG+1 ($3.78)
      Hero ($4.30)
      BTN ($4.37)

      Dealt to Hero K:diamond: A:club:

      UTG raises to $0.16, fold, Hero raises to $0.52, fold, fold, fold, UTG raises to $1.60, Hero calls $1.08

      FLOP ($3.26) 3:club: Q:club: 8:diamond:

      UTG bets $1.64, Hero raises to $2.70 (AI), UTG calls $0.91 (AI)

      TURN ($8.36) 3:club: Q:club: 8:diamond: 5:spade:

      RIVER ($8.36) 3:club: Q:club: 8:diamond: 5:spade: 4:club:

      His stats: 21/15/1.3 after 68 hands.

      Go allin preflop would be the easiest decision, but I din't want to isolate myself against better hands so I called a 4bet. How do you think is it ok?

      On flop I am commited so I go allin.
  • 4 replies
    • fusionpk
      fusionpk
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.01.2010 Posts: 1,683
      Easy ship pre flop, you should never be calling 4bets at this level, there is an argument for it mayb if you are deep but in this situation you 5b shove always. You don't isolate by 5b shoving because he has to call always here with whatever he 4bs. If the guy is tight and you think he only ever ships KK+ or something then don't 3b him, or 3b fold if he opens loose but brokes v tight. When shipping QQ/AK it very much depends upon opponent, sometimes its fine, othertimes its big -EV. Never flat 4b with AK though, its the most -EV play of all.
    • Duudalinja
      Duudalinja
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.12.2009 Posts: 1,030
      Howdy,

      I'd say when playing 6-handed it is fine 3bet UTG if he is raising enough worse hands and is capable of calling 3bet with worse hands, but calling against tightish guys UTG raise is totally fine to leave as many dominated hands as possible in his range.

      But calling 4bet is bad idea because generally 4betting range = shove calling range, so it means by shoving you can't isolate against better hands - he is calling with the same range he did 4bet. And it is not bluff at NL4. I doubt we are doing so great against his 4bet range and I'd just fold AKo. May sound weak, but if he is not maniac (and stats doesn't say that), I think he won't 4bet AQ/TT and even JJ.

      Good luck!
    • MaestroOfZerg
      MaestroOfZerg
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.11.2008 Posts: 5,510
      Hi,

      Originally posted by SPeedFANat1c
      Go allin preflop would be the easiest decision, but I din't want to isolate myself against better hands so I called a 4bet. How do you think is it ok?

      On flop I am commited so I go allin.
      So if you feel committed on a flop where you didn't hit anything, why does it bother you to ship it preflop? You'll end up all-in all the same.

      Originally posted by Duudalinja
      Howdy,

      I'd say when playing 6-handed it is fine 3bet UTG if he is raising enough worse hands and is capable of calling 3bet with worse hands, but calling against tightish guys UTG raise is totally fine to leave as many dominated hands as possible in his range.

      But calling 4bet is bad idea because generally 4betting range = shove calling range, so it means by shoving you can't isolate against better hands - he is calling with the same range he did 4bet. And it is not bluff at NL4. I doubt we are doing so great against his 4bet range and I'd just fold AKo. May sound weak, but if he is not maniac (and stats doesn't say that), I think he won't 4bet AQ/TT and even JJ.

      Good luck!
      Agreed on this.


      Hope it helps.
    • SPeedFANat1c
      SPeedFANat1c
      Gold
      Joined: 04.01.2009 Posts: 5,059
      So if you feel committed on a flop where you didn't hit anything, why does it bother you to ship it preflop? You'll end up all-in all the same.


      Yeah, but when I was in the game I just didn't think that I will be commited, I was thinking about will I push worse hands out by shoving:)