SNG Player Giving Cash Games a Shot... Advice Please :)

    • MikeAK47
      MikeAK47
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.03.2008 Posts: 136
      Hi guys, I'm looking for some advice.

      I've built a bankroll from SNGs, I now have around $600 and am playing the $10 SNGs on Full Tilt after starting in the $2 SNGs a few months ago.

      My username is MTMAK47 on Full Tilt if you wanna Sharkscope me, I have around a 20% ROI in the $5 and below level after 1000 SNGs but have only just switched to the 10s and they seem just as easy (many fish), played about 100 of those.

      Now I wanna start playing cash games and was wondering what level would be best to start out at, I'm only playing on Tilt and don't wanna move sites just yet. I am rolled for 25NL but was wondering if it would be best starting out at 10NL or even 5NL? I have heard that FT rake 10 and 5NL like crazy so maybe I would be best starting at 25NL?

      I'm still going to be playing STTs but I want to improve my deep stack and post flop play before moving up to the $20 SNGs, I think my late game SNG strategy is pretty solid. I just wanna get some cash game experience in... :)

      I'm in the process of reading and re-reading the BSS articles before I even bother sitting down at a cash table, I have no interest in playing a SSS. Planning to watch some vids as well.

      What do you guys think? Do you think I should just dive in at the deep end and start at 25NL or play some 10NL to get some experience even though the rake is sick. Bearing in mind my BR could drop 8 $25 buy ins and I'd still have a decent BR to play the $10 SNGs and would obviously drop back down to the 5s if it gets any worse.

      I think my pre-flop play is good enough but obv that's not enough when you're deep, I understand folding KJo/QJo/KQo etc to a raise from EP (obv depends on player), set mining, raising SC from LP/Button, why we 3bet and why it's better EV to flat call sometimes. It's just my post-flop play that I'm not very good at, as I play SNGs so usually I'm all in on the flop or pre-flop if I play a hand aggressively as we're all short stacked, anyway I think I'm rambling on a bit here...

      Tips please :D .
  • 18 replies
    • PocketAcesJohn
      PocketAcesJohn
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.06.2008 Posts: 1,116
      Ok il make it simple (despite there been nothing simple about poker obvs):

      EVERYTHING in cash games is all about EV, unlike STT's or MTTs where you might turn down a few +EV, if something is +EV in a cash game you take it. Everytime you turn down a +EV spot in a cash game it will directly effect your winrate over a big sarmple. I know in STT's and especially MTT's you try and avoid 52%-48%s for aslong as possible, but in cash games you shouldnt turn down fliping kind of situations, espesh if theres already some dead money in the pot.

      I play stricly cash but did dable in STT's for a few months, when i came back to cash games i noticed i was briefly a lossing player again, the reasson for this was because i was playing certain hands to deffenivley, so look at the hand evaluation forums and try and note how and why certain hands are played diffrently in cash games.

      I wont stay here and explain everything because i would be here all day explaining the diffrences so i'll let other members add to this.

      Do make sure though you have auto reload to max turned on, you want max value in any spot that may crop up.

      Start at NL5...its VERY beatable on FT.

      Good luck

      PS: I highly recomend watching the "crushing NL50" series in the video archive, espesh part 2 and 3.
    • Alficor1
      Alficor1
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.06.2010 Posts: 7,291
      I think i'd advice to start at NL5. Although ur just ridiculously overrolled for NL5, you have no experience with cash games, so jumping to NL25 would be just waste of money. NL5 is pretty easy to beat (at least for me on Stars). You need to gain some experience with post flop play and because the players on NL5 are fairly bad, it'll be easier for you to be a winning player here.
    • conall88
      conall88
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.01.2009 Posts: 1,715
      +1

      start at NL5

      Read - (the verneer PDF is for 6 max, HOWEVER a lot of it is applicable to 9 max and you should read it for sure. do not use the ranges mentioned in the pdf as they are too loose! ( eg KQo utg!!!)

      [GUIDE] Essential reading for new players edit: just notice my thread has 1600 views now, sick :)


      most important thing in cash is IDENTIFY

      player types


      tendencies, do they chase draws? do they overcall OOP, how do they play pocket pairs pre and postflop?


      best thing I can say is for your first few thousand hands, dont bluff. the players arent smart enough to exploit you, and if you play half decent, you will be EASILY in profit.

      you will learn over time when might be a good spot to steal etc.

      board texture is important.

      have fun :)
    • MikeAK47
      MikeAK47
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.03.2008 Posts: 136
      Thanks guys, even though I'm over rolled for 5NL I'll give it a shot for a few thousand hands then move up to 10NL if all goes well, I shall playing 50K hands at 10NL and if I've got a decent winrate I'll jump to 25NL.
    • JonikoP
      JonikoP
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.05.2010 Posts: 600
      If you're comfortably beating the $10 STTs I think you'll adapt pretty quickly to cash games.

      I wouldn't play more than a couple of thousand hands (at most) at NL5, as soon as you're comfortable move up to NL10 where you're much more likely to start developing a decent pre-flop game.

      As mentioned, the biggest think is probably to get over risk aversion which is important in STTs but irrelevant in cash. It's all about pushing those small EV edges...

      Good luck!
    • SeriousThreat
      SeriousThreat
      Bronze
      Joined: 20.06.2010 Posts: 79
      *Off-topic*

      I just wanted to ask, how did you manage to switch from $2 to $5 BI SnG's? did you play $2 BI SnG till got bankroll for $5 or just give it a shot?
    • gedwashere91
      gedwashere91
      Bronze
      Joined: 20.07.2009 Posts: 2,387
      Originally posted by SeriousThreat
      *Off-topic*

      I just wanted to ask, how did you manage to switch from $2 to $5 BI SnG's? did you play $2 BI SnG till got bankroll for $5 or just gamble and hope to get lucky?
      FYP

      I daresay he built his bankroll properly until he was rolled for the $5s and then moved up, just like all smart players do...
    • MikeAK47
      MikeAK47
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.03.2008 Posts: 136
      Originally posted by gedwashere91
      Originally posted by SeriousThreat
      *Off-topic*

      I just wanted to ask, how did you manage to switch from $2 to $5 BI SnG's? did you play $2 BI SnG till got bankroll for $5 or just gamble and hope to get lucky?
      FYP

      I daresay he built his bankroll properly until he was rolled for the $5s and then moved up, just like all smart players do...
      Sort of correct.

      I had around $140 when I started playing the $5 SNGs, I dropped to $98 and stopped playing them for a while, got back up to $130 then give them a shot again, never played another $2 SNG after that.

      I don't think people need to worry too much about such small buy in SNG, because you can easily re-load if you run bad.

      But when I started playing beyond $5, I'd always make sure to have at least 40BI before I took a few shots and drop back down if I ran bad.

      No real formula used or anything, just common sense :) .
    • MikeAK47
      MikeAK47
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.03.2008 Posts: 136
      Don't just use me as an example though, just because I ran good when I moved to $5 doesn't mean everyone does :)

      I knew if I lost I could always move down with enough BI to play the $2 and even re-load if need be.

      Unless you're poor then there's really no reason to play the $2 unless you're a real beginner because if you can beat $2 well, then $5 are just as easy.

      GL
    • jass1960
      jass1960
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.04.2010 Posts: 709
      Originally posted by MikeAK47
      Don't just use me as an example though, just because I ran good when I moved to $5 doesn't mean everyone does :)

      I knew if I lost I could always move down with enough BI to play the $2 and even re-load if need be.

      Unless you're poor then there's really no reason to play the $2 unless you're a real beginner because if you can beat $2 well, then $5 are just as easy.

      GL
      +1

      I've just started playing the $4 rush SNGs and they are easy to beat - up nearly $1k in one week!!!!

      Going play for a few days more then try $10 rush SNG :D
    • elhh82
      elhh82
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.09.2008 Posts: 6,838
      Originally posted by jass1960

      I've just started playing the $4 rush SNGs and they are easy to beat - up nearly $1k in one week!!!!

      run good FTW
    • pleno1
      pleno1
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 19.11.2010 Posts: 5,596
      Don't overcomplicate stuff. With big hands, bet, bet, bet. Pot sized bets rather than 1/2 pot bets for value, players are so bad that you can literally bet 1/2 pot with bad hands and pot your nut hands. You really don't need to learn too much or do anything fancy when playing teh microz.

      glgl.
    • stevegold87
      stevegold87
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      Joined: 18.06.2009 Posts: 2,640
      Why play cash game when you are a winning player at SnG? Just go higher
    • MikeAK47
      MikeAK47
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.03.2008 Posts: 136
      Originally posted by stevegold87
      Why play cash game when you are a winning player at SnG? Just go higher
      I think I ended up playing for about 5 hours in total over a few days, then got bored and started playing SNGs again...

      Planning on moving up to the $30 soon, just as donkish as the $20s.
    • gedwashere91
      gedwashere91
      Bronze
      Joined: 20.07.2009 Posts: 2,387
      Originally posted by stevegold87
      Why play cash game when you are a winning player at SnG? Just go higher
      High stakes SnGs are super super tough. Most pros at the high limit STTs are just living off rakeback.
    • lessthanthreee
      lessthanthreee
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.06.2009 Posts: 16,300
      Originally posted by gedwashere91
      Originally posted by stevegold87
      Why play cash game when you are a winning player at SnG? Just go higher
      High stakes SnGs are super super tough. Most pros at the high limit STTs are just living off rakeback.
      there is still money to be made in HS SnGs. but the $/hr ceiling is definitely higher in CGs. no doubt about that.

      +fav this blog. GL
    • santostr
      santostr
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.08.2009 Posts: 663
      I'd start at NL25. Maybe play a couple of hands on NL10 just to get a taste of the game.

      Sure, you can start at NL5, make some profit and move up, but:

      1) Just playing value bet value bet value bet is boring.
      2) You won't know if your winning soon enouth anyway.
      3) Games are very diferent anyway, so you'll just have to learn again when you move from NL10 to NL25
      4) You probably don't care if you loose a couple of stacks on the learning process.

      I personally take poker as a profitable hobby right now. I think with our bankrolls we can't do much more than that. If we don't cash out the next 3 months... whatever...
      With that in mind I'd start higher, even if we loose a little bit.

      I myself plan to do something similar. I'm playing $12 on tilt. Will move up to the $24 soon (hopefully :D ) and some day will try shots at CG. I won't start lower than NL50.
    • stevegold87
      stevegold87
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      Joined: 18.06.2009 Posts: 2,640
      Or withdraw bankroll > Play live NL200 > ??? > Profit