Continuation betting

    • hackbinder
      Joined: 15.05.2009 Posts: 618
      In general, how do most people size a cont bet, assuming the flop has given you nothing spectacular?

      This is a source of much thought for me because flop bets seem to be 4 types...

      1) Less than half pot - in general, this seems to mean either...

      - drawing hand
      - slow play monster
      - where do I stand

      2) Half pot - in general, this seems to mean...

      - middle pair
      - I do not have the balls for a big bet, probably overcards that are not AK
      - overpair

      3) Full pot - in general, this seems to mean...

      - pair good kicker
      - AK overpair
      - I think you will fold to my aggression

      4) Donk over-the-pot bet -

      - I'm tilting and I have ?????????
      - I'm protecting my top pair against a wet board

      So, the way I see it, the best cont bet when the flop has given nothing depends on whether or not you want to make a play on the pot. If you are going to try and bluff, the sizing will depend on the story you wish to tell.

      - Less than half pot - the story is that I have a drawing hand and I will bet big on the river if the villian does not show aggression

      - Half pot - This to me seems the weakest because only a good hand will call because of the story my bet is telling, probably top pair and that player will not likely fold, so if I get called, maybe a turn bet but this is probably a fold

      - Pot - If a A or K show up on later streets this may set up a believeable bluff, also, drawing hands may fold on a turn bet if nothing scary shows up, but most drawing hands will fold because the odds are not correct to call

      - Donk over-the-pot bet - This is also weak because it paints you as a weak player, but it may scare off hands that are not top pair or better and drawing hands. I think most people would overshove to this.

      To be honest, before I started to think about this today, I never really thought through the size of my cont bets. I just seemed to cont bet random sizes, mostly pot sized, especially when multitabling.

      *****I am trying to make sense of continuation bet sizing. I welcome your opinions and critiques of my thinking.*****
  • 8 replies
    • Kikser1214
      Joined: 06.10.2009 Posts: 44
      Don't c-bet pot size for bluffs there is no need 3/4 or 2/3 will do the job just as good as pot size bet and save you money when opponent got something.
      Small c-bet like 1/3 or 1/2 pot can be profitable if you know you opponents well to provoke bluffs or keep them in the hand but this can be risky if you don't haw the nuts or close and over bets or pots size bets can be used for protection in multiway pots.

      If you play micros 99% of players don't think and the one thinking don experts you to think so i think is best to stick to 2/3 c-bet all the time, this will cover the strait of your hand agents players that keep track of what is happening at the tables and for the others doesn't rely madders but you c-betting will be mathematically correct.

      This is my opinion and i am not wary good but i thin this is good approach to C-bets.

      My English sucks i know.
    • ihufa
      Joined: 18.03.2008 Posts: 3,323
      5) postflop move of honor
    • SalamiandCheese
      Joined: 16.07.2008 Posts: 569
      If you bet pot all the time, your opponents will know that is just your regular cbet and a pot sized flop bet loses the extra bit of fold equity that usually comes with that size. You're better off betting 60-67% since u still get fold equity and you're not putting in as much with the worst hand. A pot size bet needs to work 50% and a 2/3 bet needs to work only 40% to be break-even.
    • OnkelHotte
      Joined: 16.01.2005 Posts: 18,429
      Hey guys,

      the topic of betsizing is of course a difficult one, but maybe you can get some more information about it in the following video:

      Furthermore Sietes Mind the gap is a Mustview for you guys;)

      My input regarding your thoughts:

      In general there are rare cases to bet less than half the pot and more than the pot. The differences are mainly if you bet 1/2, 2/3 or 3/4 the pot.
      This mostly depends a) on the board structure and as always b) on wour opponent.

      The general "rule" is to be more on very draw heavy boards (not to give too good odds for drawing hands) = up to 3/4 pot and less if the board is dry (1/2 pot e.g.)

      In 3 bet or 4 bet pots the contibet size is usually smaller as there is no need to build the pot on the flop as you can easily go allin whenever your want. Furthermore there are less implied odds which makes it less profitable to call with not so good odds thus 1/3 - 1/2 the pot is mostly sufficient.

      Regarding bluffs: Usually you should not fit your betsize to your hand strengh unless your opponent is very bad.
      Vs good opponents never expose your hand strengh by your betsize.

      Hope this helps you a bit and best regards,
    • hackbinder
      Joined: 15.05.2009 Posts: 618
      Thanks to those who posted. I have a lot to think about.

    • OnkelHotte
      Joined: 16.01.2005 Posts: 18,429
      You are welcome:)

      Do not hesitate to ask further questions.
    • conall88
      Joined: 02.01.2009 Posts: 1,715
      factors determining my cbet size when I play HU:

      - board texture
      -> does board hit villains range much?
      -> does villain checks often when he hits?
      -> does villain like to trap?

      - villain player type ( calling station/ mega nit; Y or N ?)
      -> if villain gives me no respect I will cbet 1/2 pot with speculative hands or middle pair etc. I will bet 2/3 pot + with strong made hands on drawey boards.

      vs mega nits you obv wanna steal as much as possible, as cheaply as possible, so I will bet 45-60% pot depending on how cheaply he will let me cbet and make him fold

      - Do I have a draw?
      -> refer to villains behaviour with pairs/draws
      -> act accordingly

      -effective stack sizes.
      no brainer, sometimes shoving is better... eg shallow stack/high blinds
    • Mulatu
      Joined: 26.07.2010 Posts: 112
      Good post Onkel.

      With all those things (action pre-flop, position/range, board texture and knowing your opponent) I think consistency is key for me. Like you said regarding bluffs, your bet shouldn't give away the strength of your hand (the same reason you shouldn't always check-raise a monster or lead at every flop for example).

      Good players pay attention; consistency disguises patterns.