Gameplanning with ge5sterne - Part 1

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  • NL BSS
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Description

ge5sterne kicks off his new series by considering the importance of planning ahead to maximize the profitablility of the descisions you make at the table.

Tags

gameplanning series Session Review

Comments (45)

newest first
  • EuanM

    #1

    Enjoy the video and please keep the comments in English!
  • LX4DR

    #2

    welche software is das denn?
  • kacsa1st

    #3

    thx for this video,was so helpful :)
  • basta11

    #4

    #ge5sterne

    wieviel kohle hattest du auf ftp, wenn ich fragen darf
  • gaijin69

    #5

    What a luckbox :D

    Just kidding. Great video, mate!
  • clandestineAl

    #6

    With the two pair you were about to fold I was almost screaming at the computer. "Two Pair!!! Two Pair!!"
  • lodinn

    #7

    great vid, thanks! also, would be awesome if you could tell where I can get a piece of that tablemod, even though FT is down atm.

    took you long enough to notice you had 2pair on that 67 hand ;)
  • Grimlock

    #8

    - very good explanation how to pick up a read on setar_pimic when he did value bet AJ on AQxxx F&T und checked the river behind. I think people often miss to take a note on this and conclude how he plays different hand types on these boards. Afai remember a few hands later (when you weren't involved) setar proofs you right by barreling three streets with a busted draw+bottom pair.
    - I'd like to hear some deeper thoughts about the KK hand 17:03 when you shoved the river. Although it is reasonable that by shoving when "some" draws bust villain might be inclined to call u a bit lighter, I'd like to hear some comments on villains calling/check-behind/BetVsCheck range because I'm not sure if EV(shove) is max.
    - am I mistaking or didn't you always open 4BB from the SB in your earlier videos?
    - at the beginning of the session you iso raised an unknown limper from the SB w ATo. Don't you think NL25 players should avoid these situation? With more Information I would def. aggree to do so but without AT oop is pretty much a borderline +/-0 hand.
    - all in all a great educ video. u're def my fav video maker around here.
  • ge5sterne

    #9

    @4: Genug, dass ich es wiedersehen möchte.

    @7: www.tiltbuster.com

    @8: Thanks for your detailed feedback!

    - KK: I believe that his checkback-Range is fairly wide in this Spot. He will definitely check behind with almost all of his Jx hands.There is no need to bluff with them in his eyes, since he beats some of my Air and he can't assume I am folding Ax. A bluff with a hand like JT,QJ would be a pretty good play here though, because I might have some Ksxs hands in my range which I might be folding to a shove. But most players on the Microstakes won't even consider bluffing here with Jx.
    Furthermore I think that even some AsAx combos will be checked back here, which will usually just click call on the river (I has top-pair, I call ;) ). Also given the boardtexture, there are hardly any draws in his range without any sort of SD-Value which again increases the likelyhood of Villian checking behind -> Shove for Value is best in my eyes

    - Openraise SB: You are right, I used to open to 4x on the Microstakes in that spot and to 3.5x on NL100+. I started to 3x it now in my regular games and I just stuck to the new habit, during this video ;)

    - AT: The more skilled you are, the more +EV these marginal situations OOP will be for you obviously. I think it's hard to loose money on that isolation raise vs a fishy opponent, even OOP. We crush parts of his limp/calling range, Villians on NL25 play too much fit or fold (as can be seen in this video) and with a little bit of handreading and well-timed aggression we will profit ;) But certainly if you are not comfortable with these isolation-raises, you could just fold or complete. I personally think the hand plays way more profitable with a raise than with a complete. By raising we achieve the usual advantages of isolation: Fold out the equity hare of the BB, accumulate deadmoney, generate fold-equity preflop and for the Cbet on the Flop -> easy money.
    Also consider that occassionaly you need to step out of your comfort-zone in order to improve your game and learn from finding yourself in "new" spots
  • JHTAN

    #10

    Hi ge5sterne,
    you shove with JJ on Flop [AsTs4c] because you don't want to give him free cards on Turn and River if villain has draws?
    I think shoving Flop may isolate to Ax but we are OOP so we have to c/c Turn and thus give him free cards if he checks behind. So, shoving maybe best play.
  • DoigteurFou

    #11

    What do you call "planning"? This video is quite interesting, however I did not see any element of a planning proccess. This is basically live session with value/handreading comments (with a lot of very interesting informations), but I don't see any planning at all...
  • Grimlock

    #12

    #10 I don't remember the exact bet/raise sizes, but I am pretty sure villain could have a close call with a FD. Therefore his range doesn't really change. I hardly doubt that villain is capable of bluff raising the Flop and bluff shoving Turn or River.

    #11 I aggree that the name is misleading. On the other hand a real "Planning" Session can't be done playing live. Considering Villains Range and planning on the Flop which Turn Cards change the Equity significantly is kinda hard work and to be exact must be done using the Equilator or something. AND you need a huge sample to get the ranges right.

    #9 It's not really your thought process I don't get but the fact that you have only seen 4 hands from villain so far and you put so many assumptions into your argumentation. Maybe I'm wrong not thinking that far. On the other hand you only have to be one step ahead of villains thoughts. And I am really not sure if there are enough villains on NL25 that bluff catch a shove with a hand they would have checked-behind otherwise just because some draws bust. Whatever. As a conclusion I'm happy to say I really learned some things in this hand.

    AT: u'r right. But most people watching this video are at the beginning of their career and tend to imitate certain moves without really knowing why a Coach/Producer thought it was +/max EV. I think for edu purposes it would be important to outline that for beating NL25 it is not neccessary to raise here.
  • sootedAs

    #13

    Great vid, I enjoyed watching it and I'll def see it a few more times. And I do agree about the TT hand, I'd fold there too.

    Please keep making the videos :)
    All the best!
  • Rothko

    #14

    ty nice video
  • Rothko

    #15

    #13 +1
  • enne123

    #16

    good thoughts, good video. thx.
  • Tim64

    #17

    excellent - thanks!
  • 2phil4u

    #18

    nice video
    The last hand with JJ on a ATx Board.
    You get a little raise and im quite sure, he has at least top pair.
    IF he is not a super hand reader and dont believe you the ace, then fold.
    On higher limits, where many people would bluffraise like this, a shove becomes better.
  • VorpalF2F

    #19

    You provide a counter-example to zeebo's theorem:
    http://www.thepokerbank.com/strategy/theorems/zeebo/

    “No player is capable of folding a full house on any betting round, regardless of the size of the bet.”
  • 1667Paranoid

    #20

    #19 thanks for that link
  • kiriesokin

    #21

    Very nice video, I learned a lot!

    But do you always play that loose PF (~39/37) or was this just b/c of the good hands you got or for eductational purposes?
  • ge5sterne

    #22

    @12: Thx for your detailed feedback!

    @11: In this live video I attempt to illustrate why I choose particular lines, which may not be optimal if you consider a particular street in isolation (i.e. a Turnbet) but which makes sense if you also consider possible future outcomes, such as barreling and/or improving on certain board-runouts. I try to go into a hand with what is called a "gameplan" based on Villians Range for certain lines and my perceived range. Hence the title "Gameplanning". Of course reviewing equitys etc. wil help to come up with a good gameplan, but in-game you will still have to do some "on-the-spot-planning" based on your experience, handreading and of course the aforementioned Equitys.

    @21: I don't always play that loose, especially 39/37 will not be max EV if you play it constantly. It was merely a function of the playable hands I got dealt in most positions and just my attempt to pick a lot of spots for the video.
  • Wacko118

    #23

    Nice video, but seriously do you ever miss? I think you missed the set once in the video and never missed a gutshot draw.

    However very informative, i reckon i definitely play far too weak on these limits from this.
  • brus89

    #24

    love the 76s hand where u dind't see u had 2 pair :) ns video
  • siweq86

    #25

    29:30 JTs are you still sure that 3bet with JTs is a best way to play this hand? He has fold to 3bet - 1/4 so propable he will call here all types of broadways hands like Jx, Tx, all Axs and we dont now too much about his game postflop. Shouldnt we fold it at preflop?

    35:18 i really like your check/raise river. He propably should cbet w/ Jx, QQ-KK so we almost dont have value in betting on scare card. Only way is to get value from his air. We dont afraid to lose value from Ax because he usally will vbet this. But what are u doing when villian shove river after your raise?
  • naudanauda

    #26

    U are running better than Jesus Christ on the water :)
  • Harnas31

    #27

    16:50 KK - I dont understand your brave shove on river. His play clearly indicates possibility of QT and nuts on the river. Why do you shove ?
  • ge5sterne

    #28

    @27: How does his play "clearly indicicate" exactly QT in a spot where he just called twic and it#s the only draw that got there? If you think he peels twice with QT, he can also have all Nut-FDs and hence TP in this spot. Also his range will contain worse made hands than ours like sets, Twopair, TP etc. I think the most likely hand for him to have is AJ btw, given the line he took.

    Against a callingrange that looks like 77,99,JJ,AJ,QT,AsKs,AsQs,T8s,KJs we have eactly 50% equity and break even if he calls -> the bet will be +EV since occassionally he will fold. In my eyes this range is weighted in favozr of villian since it contains ALL QT combinations. If we remove only a few of the QTo combinations and to be fair the AsQs combination, we have between 60-70% equity against his callingrange
  • Harnas31

    #29

    So you would shove as well if effective stack was double the pot , like 40$ left , not 17.85$ ?
  • ge5sterne

    #30

    Not necessarily, it depends on the equity we have against his callingrange and that may or may not be smaller for 2x the pot.
  • Harnas31

    #31

    thx, now I understand eth and totally agree with you.
  • otoo

    #32

    Hi, I see that you just call with 77 in sb vs button open raiser at about 9:45...You think you have enough implied odds to just setmine against a button raiser ? Why not 3b ?
  • ge5sterne

    #33

    @32: 77 I am not only calling for setvalue but because I have some decent SD-Value against a BU-Range and opponents on more passive stakes will allow me to either get to SD cheaply or take some pots away from them often enough in order to make the defend +EV (at least that's my general assumption ;) ).

    You can certainly bluff3bet or fold the smaller PPs (or even 3bet/jam vs aggressive 4betters)
  • Mondkeks

    #34

    Hi Ge5sterne:

    I have some Questions about KK hand around 17:00:

    1: I assume you plan bet/fold the turn there?

    2: What do you do if the River is a another J? blockbet? check/fold? check/call a small bet -> he could bluff busted fds?

    3: What if the River is another A? -> valueshove against Jx? or bet smaller?

    4: What do you do if the River completes the flush or a offsuit T or 8 which make 1-card straights possible...
  • Mondkeks

    #35

    5: what if the river totally blanks?
  • ge5sterne

    #36

    @34:
    1. Yes.
    2. c/f. There aren't many FD-Combos in his range which don't have a pair on this board
    3. I shove for value I assume
    4. Probably c/f, assuming he checks back most hands that we beat but doesn't call often enough with worse in order for us to have a profitable valuebet. If you think he is capable of turning a made-hand into a bluff, you could consider c/c
    5. Probably valueshove ...
  • OZSA

    #37

    Hi, some question about the JJ hand at around 42:00
    You didnt really consider what he did before, he minraised you on the flop Q44 and u did 3bet K7s, 1/2 b/f flop.
    So after seeing that, I believe he does bluff raise very high percent of the flops, I just consider he is tilted still and wants to fight back at you for that slowplayed 44 set, on the A river c/r.

    With this in mind, how would you play the JJ on ATx board ? Because for me it automatically seems like its an 1/2 bet/call flop (or less, to induce) , and c/c turn (where he prolly shoves or does 2/3, in any way, turn check/call AI or check/shove).

    This should be the correct play, is it ? Again, I see him as a tilted guy, which he was.
  • ge5sterne

    #38

    @37: Sounds close, considering how many Ax hands our perceived 4betting range in that spot will contain. Not sure he would bluffraise in this particular spot as often as we wish. But as I said in the video, he can hardly rep the ace by flatting pre and raising the flop, so I probably would stack off given the SPR and his previous bluff
  • OZSA

    #39

    Problem if you shove the flop, he will fold all his bluffs, if you call the flop, and c turn he has to shove in order to win, which he will most of the time because he is 1) tilted 2) wants to win no matter what. so the best play shouldnt be bet/call, c/c turn ?
  • ge5sterne

    #40

    @39: If you believe he has pure bluffs in his range, that is correct. But on that particular board texture, given his remaining stack-size, he is more likely to be either semi-bluffing or raising for thin value and not folding any parts of his range (at least that was my assumption in game). But I suppose if we believe he is completely out of line, we could call Flop, and c/c any turn.
  • Maskoe

    #41

    do you think that sort of style is really necassery for NL25? i mean youre giving every oppenent just so much credit, he knows what showdownvalue is, he can check it back, he would always bet his busted draws on the river, theyre turning weak pairs and ace high into bluffs...

    i didnt play for the last 4 months but did it really change that much?
  • ge5sterne

    #42

    @41: I don't think any specific style is "necessary". After all a style is just a personal way of playing, based on your knowledge and perception of the game. "Necessary" are solid fundamentals and to practice your handreading/range-reading abilities, in order to come up with a solid gameplan to beat whichever limit you are playing on.
  • dannywratten

    #43

    minute 38, nice play w/ JJ in 4b pot against the fish. i would definately make a bad fold when he raises the smallish cbet. need to work on my thought process a LOT
  • SPeedFANat1c

    #44

    I would also think I am tilting if I shove JJ on ATx in 4bet pot. I ouwld put him on many Ax hands there. Why should he necesarily raise this flop with a draw? He might think we are having string range - Ax hand and he has no FE, so he calls with a draw I think very often.
  • bouchapipe

    #45

    running like usain bolt