# Shorthanded DONs - Theory

• Sit and Go
• SNG
• Shorthanded

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## Description

In the first part of a Double or Nothing series from Jaroz007, we are initially brought into the DoN mindset with some theory, followed up by some practical examples of ICM calculations.

## Tags

• #1

Enjoy the Double or Nothing video from Jaroz007!

Stay tuned for more DoN videos and leave any feedback or questions about the gametype, below, for the coach.
• #2

Hi whats your sample and ROI on these?
What do you do against Regs that keep calling way too loose?
• #3

SH Don + Ongame
• #4

Nice video!
• #5

Hi,
at 7:30 you did not give the name and adress of the ICM calculator you used. I think this is something that must be done each time as:
1) it allows viewers to use it
2) this is a free service
• #6

Thank you very much for this video. Im trying to beat the 6max DoNs on Everest and this video helped me a lot. Especially the part when you mentioned the fact that some players dont understand the game and are willing to gamble which i believe is very important to keep in mind. Looking forward to your next videos.
• #7

#5: Yes you are right, I probably just thought most people know how & where to use it.
The adress for the ICM tool is:
http://www.icmpoker.com/Calculator.aspx

and the Nash calculator is:
http://www.holdemresources.net/hr/sngs/icmcalculator.html
• #8

#2 I have played a couple k (5-6k) 11\$ buyins with positive roi. the 22+33s I have a 0% roi over 2k games

I just push tighter vs. loose regs, thats pretty much it. Not much you can do if they call -EV other than leave out some often dominated hands (small Ax type hands) and trap them with good raise/calling hands.
• #9

# Thank you for the feedback DannyJQ
• #10

18:00
maths around the BF
i think ur not right with 75% equity necessary at the bubble
it is right, that we need 25% more for \$EV as for chipEV
but we dont need 75% - just if the odds are 1 : 1 - if this is the case, the 75% equity for be \$EV ist correct
but normally this should never be the case and we need less then 75%

example
even stacks with 4bb
the BB has to pay 1bb and the SB 1/2
CO pushes with 4bb
so BB has 3 bb left, the pot ist 4 + 0.5 + 1 bb (+ maybe antes, but let's say no antes)
BB is getting odds ~1,8 : 1 and needs for chipEV ~36% equity
in my opinion we have to take these 36% and have to add the 25% more for \$EV
result: 61% for be \$EV
• #11

*if BF = 3
• #12

I liked the video but also want to point out 3 things:

1.) 10% Rake for a DON is obscene because is almost impossible to achieve a reasonable winrate playing with such a high rake. You have to get into the money 55% just to brake even.

2.) Min. 12: The needed Equity for a profitable allin in a 10-man DON is actually 64,3%, not 67%, so there is a difference between 10 and 6-max-DONs, but the difference is relatively small.

3.) Min. 25: This is a classic example where you should deviate from Nash. As the big blind in this example you should call 100% of your hands, whereas Nash suggests calling "only" 65%. The problem is that by folding your BB to a push you loose all of your foldequity (a concept that ICM-based-programs don't take into account). As a result of that the SB should push a lot tighter than nash suggests and also the other 2 players should push a little tighter.
• #13

Good content, maybe work a little bit on your english to make it even better!
• #14

Dons are fun to play but the rake will get you 10% is to much.
However fish dont care about the rake so it should be fishy.
• #15

Very good part one and looking forward for the next ones. I have also tried to find a 6max hyper satellite(2seats) video as the high blind effect is remarkable factor at those. Does anybody know is there any available?
• #16

#10 You are of course right that 75% Equity is only correct for deep stack allins with >10bb where odds don't matter much.
But it is definitely not true that you should add 25% to your needed Equity after calculating odds. With 4bb Stacks if the CO shoves 100% we can only call 6,6% from Nash (77+, ATs+, AQo+) which has a total EQ of 71% vs an any2 range.
Now this is the mathematical solution, of course you can call a little wider considering what was mentioned in comment #12 - that we loose Foldequity when giving up our BB. So with 4bb stacks you have to move away from Nash/ICM to a certain degree.
Nut still you should never consider calling a range that has 61% EQ vs any2 in this situation that would be terribly -EV.
• #17

@"But it is definitely not true that you should add 25% to your needed Equity after calculating odds ..."

depends on the BF
if BF = 3 then +25%
if BF > 3 then >+25%

it was just an example for BF = 3
i think nomally the BF on the bubble is much higher than 3
and of course the nash range for calling much tighter
• #18

#12 I do appreciate the comment and agree with all your points but just want to answer:

1) On Pokerstrategy there are some sites with pretty good Rakeback deals available, which is esssential for these games.
2) You are right of course the Equity is 64,3% for FR DoNs. I don't know why I used the wrong number.
3) I do agree that you have to deviate from Nash. But I disagree that calling 100% in the BB is correct, especially because the CO, BU and SB are usually tighter than Nash. I think there are better EV spots with the bottom 20-25% of or range.

And thx @ all for the positive feedback
• #19

# 13, no, no! Maybe the author's English is not very good for an Englishman, but for others it's very very understandable!
Thanks!
• #20

Thanks !! :)