180 & 45-Man Sit & Go Session - Part 3b

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Braminc hits the 45 and 180-man Multi-Table Sit & Goes to demonstrate his method for tackling the various Sit & Go formats shown and continues with the review in part three. Stay tuned for the other two sections of this video, coming shortly! We hope you enjoy the Video, and don't forget to leave any thoughts or questions you may have about the video for braminc.

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• #1

Enjoy the second installment of the third episode with braminc!

Your thoughts and feedback are always welcomed!

For the first part in this episode, check out the release from Friday: http://www.pokerstrategy.com/video/24992/
• #2

Wow. Folding AJ with 10bb first in from HJ is just extremely nitty. I would use Nash programs and then adjust the Ranges, because all Ranges in Sngwiz after you fold are completely wrong. Nashrange is 33% btw. I dont say that we should shove that wide but a 15-20% Shoverange is mandatory. Also saying that shoving AJ here is a fundamental Mistake makes absolutely no sense and it is really bad if someone hears this who wants to learn the game.
• #3

I understand that it SEEMS ridiculously nitty. But there are few situations where you should be nittier than on 45man final tables with ~medium stack.

I'd be very interested in seeing what ranges villains would have to make shoving 20% +ev. Imo nash programs are the worst way to study and extremely misleading due to their nature of relying on assumptions of our opponents that are basically always false.

How does my statement make absolutely no sense if I am showing the mathematical basis for my statement? I agree that you can argue different ranges and get different results, but you can't really say it makes "absolutely no sense".

• #4

Nash:
http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/5455/nashth.jpg

And the basis for your Statement is not mathematics. The Basis is your assumption about callingranges. I can prove you almost everything with Sngwiz if i type in specific callingranges. But that doesnt say that it is the right play.
Your callingranges are very wide and you probably havent typed in all shove and callranges for players behind you after you folded the hand or did you? Its not possible to see that in the video.
The Nash callinranges are too tight probably, but i think that the adjusted Ranges are close to Reality.
• #5

btw. you also have to consider that in todays games most players shove very wide. That means that they can extremely exploit you if you are too nitty. If they are good they will not give you any +ev spot unless you pick up a premium Hand. Its better for you if you both make a slightly -ev play (you shove too wide and they call too wide) than to completely nit it up. You have to take your best EV Spots and if you wont get +ev Spots you have to take the marginal ones. And Aj is really not a marginal shove here. Dont take it personal, but it is insane for me to fold Aj here :)
A9o would be marginal.
• #6

sry for third message in a row:
What i wanted to say is that you basically trade EV. You lose a little bit EV with some Shoves/calls in a specific stage of the tournament to win much more back later. With a bigger Stack you can apply more pressure later and you will get much more +ev spots than with a middle/small Stack and the other Players on the table will not try to abuse the big Stack. They will shove much tighter in Sb vs BB situations for example especially if you have shown that you are willing to make light calls before.
On the other side with a nitty/rocky image they will abuse you to the max. All these factors are not in the mathematical calculations and they are extremely important. Much more important if a marginal shove is 0% equity or -0.2% Equity.
• #7

No worries on the multiple msgs, and again i appreciate the comments.

My beef with your first comment was that you were saying it makes absolutely no sense. But in fact, with SLIGHTLY looser calling ranges, it's extremely reasonable to fold a marginally -ev shove.

We can argue all day and night about what calling ranges to give our opponents, but you have to remember this is a \$7 buyin. Expecting villains to fold 66 and AT with under 10bbs is wishful thinking imo.

I also don't think this is a table or stack setup where you can bully other stacks after earning the chip lead. So the argument about taking breakeven shove to gain future ev (while applicable to many other situations) doesn't seem to apply here.

All your considerations are good ones imo, I just am not yet convinced that versus random players in a \$7 game, players would ever call that tight. If anything I think you'll find guys snapping off a bit looser than the ranges i put in with hands like 44 and A8s or whatever. Still all that you mention are good things to consider :)
• #8

When i do the calcullations with the same ranges as you in this vip i get this range 9.2%, 66+ ATs+ ATo+ KQs to push AJ also looks like a no brainer push. But i think your callingranges are very loose. The table looks very normal with no maniaks or so.
How can you expect people calling with A10 (when the are not in the blinds) when there is so much icm going on and A10 do not even beat 1 hand in your entire pushing range. For me it sound very strange to see that they wil cal hand that do not even beat 1 hand in your range.
• #9

Let me first remind everyone that I would LOVE to justify shoving AJ since it's what i actually did during live play in the first place AND that at worst it certainly looks very close.

With that said, I'm having trouble convincing myself that stack sizes of 5bb 7bb 8bb and 12bb are gonna play THAT tight. Maybe the BB with "full" stack could be tighter, I can see that. But for 5, 7 and 8 after we're already ITM in a \$7 game, I just don't see them folding 66/55 or AJ/ATs and probably a few other spazzy hands.

I do agree with you guys that if they are tighter as you assert, then our range should obviously be wider. The main point of this and most of my final table analyses is that you generally have to play a bit tighter than most would expect, especially with a middle stack size.

:)
• #10

lool man u cracked me up with that yelling :D thx for the video
• #11

Very good video. Thanks !