Introducing Glitlr - Heads Up Play in SnGs

  • Sit and Go
  • SNG
  • Heads-up
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Description

A warm welcome to new coach Matt "Glitlr" Meo as he brings us his first video. He takes us through concepts when it comes to being slightly deeper than 'push-fold' when heads up in SNGs.

Tags

Blind Defense Contibet headsup hu Theory Video

Comments (46)

newest first
  • fitzinator18

    #1

    Enjoy the first video from our new coach Glitlr, we're really excited to have him on board!

    As always leave feedback and suggestions in the comments section below!
  • teKsenX

    #2

    buggiest 4 minuten ever :D
  • Andyuk18

    #3

    Interesting T9o call at the start without a read. How much do you deviate from ICM in those situations?
  • circe

    #4

    Die 4 Min Vorschau dauert nur 10 Sekunden. Epic fail!
  • Tim64

    #5

    21:00 47s, I can see some benefit to betting small when we crush the board. What about a balance between getting value from a wider range (small bet) and protecting vs draws, though? The fact that we'll know where we stand if a 6 comes on the turn doesn't make that any less anoying. If he does happen to have 7x/8x, a 6 on the turn also means we get less value overall since we are both wary of a straight in the other's hand. So I would want to be putting in 500-600+ here.
  • Tim64

    #6

    A5o; isn't the reason to fold simply that this particular opponent has hardly ever raised? i.e. he's limped the BU a bunch of times. This might be his first raise. So we expect him to fold to the 3b infreqently (and also to call with a strong range) in which case shipping here is bad. I'm struggling with the concept of plays that "win you chips but lose you games." In this particular case, isn't the point that 3b shoving A5o vs this particular guy doesn't win you chips?
  • Tim64

    #7

    Thanks, Glitlr, for this thought provoking first video! I didn't agree with everything, but like you say, when we leave the ego out of it we get better discussion and everyone can learn something from this vid :)
  • ghaleon

    #8

    3:00 T9o: Its reasonable call, but your reasoning is questionable. I don't see why to make -$EV call. Yes he is your direct opponent so you have less ICM tax versus him and so on and you can call wider because of that. Calling with 75s would not sound good to me in most cases. You still have fold equity and changes to open shove. Especially if big stack is more on passive side.
  • ghaleon

    #9

    6:30: You mention of filtering stats in 9man game. Problem with non HU stats in HU is their informative value. Many players change their game quite dramatically. So personally I prefer to have completely separated HU stats with option to double click and see what sort of player villain has been.
  • ghaleon

    #10

    18:00 37o: There is draws combos to get value from, but versus opponent capable of making semibluffs, floating etc. it get very nasty in future streets. Even if turn is 2h we are in somewhat awkward spot. Do we value bet again? Do we check-fold?

    I am ok with bet, but really my main goal would be to just get pot down. Or more precisely its best ending for hand.
  • ghaleon

    #11

    26:00 QJo: Sometimes I like do this sort of small donk bet play to induce kind of "craise" versus my weak line to allow be to bet-3bet. That way achieving to be the one to go allin first and giving the tough decision for villain. Usually I use it with some good draws mixed with some strong made hands.

    Not necessarily bad play in such extremely dry boards either. Might get tricky though versus some regs. Like raise-call with K high and so on :)
  • ghaleon

    #12

    30:00 A5o: Yeah versus passive player folding is best. Calling with this short stack make no sense. Though how would you like to play A5o versus loose or semi-loose open raiser with 30bb?

    Versus some aggro reg its standard shove. You get loose villain to fold often and really he can call wider than KJo if he is raising 80+% of hands. As he also should versus aggro 3bet villain. Otherwise BU play would be totally out of balance and practically he would be offering chips on silver plate.
  • ghaleon

    #13

    Well as comment to earlier one as you type "win you chips but lose you games.". How far are you going with this idea? Villain open raises lets say 50% and calls 20%. Something I might call semi-loose. It still wins quite a few chips (around 1BB). Yeah you are most of time screwed when calls come, but still 1BB is quite huge.

    Well basically what Tim said earlier.
  • ghaleon

    #14

    Eh... "Think of all those times that you would have folded and not run into AT, 77..."

    So do we also forget all those times when villain folded, called with K8, T8s/56s (happens). I really don't agree with such one sided result oriented thinking.

    I have also certainly 3bet shoved Ax versus too passive villains, but it also goes for term called "streamlining". I mean when you are multitabling a lot and happen to have 4 HU, 5 bubble spots and 10 other games in different spots there is no way to optimize your line versus each villain.
  • ghaleon

    #15

    47:30 K9s: Well obviously you cannot know if he has Jx or not. But in poker we usually have to play versus ranges (unless we have good soul read) and you assumed that your hand versus his range is good enough.
  • ghaleon

    #16

    48:20 J7o: Do you want to create more fold equity with J7o 3bb deep? I do like that line sometimes with like 76o that actually is behind lot of hands, but really J7o is monster and I don't want villain to think: "Oh I have 86o I would have called shove, but lets see free flop ---> Oh I missed lets fold"
  • elekadammate

    #17

    Hi!

    30:00 I agree with Tim. In my opinion In these stack depths, there is a very short edge on all the players, so what is +EV, i play. It sound's like variance is a bad thing, be carefull. Variance is my friend, it gains me money.
    I am not disclosing from any new conecept. I seen a lot of HU video, and every producer said, that the good players money come from these thin situation. Shoving Ax <20bb is standard nowadays. I agree, that a 9man HU is different thant a normal HU, because players are more exploitable here. In contrary the concepts are the same.
    Maybe a super tight no 3bettor, x/f-er vs limpstab player, who raise only 40% i would fold here, but i never seen a playertype like this before.

    I am interested in, what a HU specialist would comment. Did you consult this theory with a HU professional?
  • elekadammate

    #18

    21:00 I agree with Tim. I like the concept, only on later streets, to get value from 3 pair, if there is no top pair in Villian's range.

    I think that this board is a bad choice, because, there is so much draws and 8x to get value. And 4x will not fold to 700 if not fold to 400 in my opinion. Maybe there is little thin value from 4x, but that quantity not compensate us for the lost value from draws and pairs.
  • GlitlrPS

    #19

    @tim64,

    You said...
    Thanks, Glitlr, for this thought provoking first video! I didn't agree with everything, but like you say, when we leave the ego out of it we get better discussion and everyone can learn something from this vid :)

    You are definitely right man! It's totally fine to disagree. As long as we can honestly evaluate hands and ideas from all angles we can always become a better player!
  • GlitlrPS

    #20

    @tim 64 re: comment #5

    Betting more is perfect! I love it for the reasons you said
  • GlitlrPS

    #21

    @tim64 re: comment 6

    You said...
    In this particular case, isn't the point that 3b shoving A5o vs this particular guy doesn't win you chips?

    You are right. Shoving A5o might not even win us chips if the opponent is that tight (like you said, he hasn't really raised the btn).

    In regards to "plays that win chips but lose games"...it would be if A5o here is +EV although when you are called it's bad news and you lose the game x% of the time. Whereas, not playing the hand gives you 0% chance to lose. (Keep in mind, this is something a lot of people will disagree with).

    Hope this helps.
  • GlitlrPS

    #22

    @ghaleon, re: comment 7 (the T9o call).

    I rather make a -EV call here with the reward of money than make a +EV shove worth no money.

    For me, money is more important than $EV. (note: the term "$EV" is misleading because it doesn't always gaurentee money)

    Hope this helps.
  • GlitlrPS

    #23

    @ghaleon,

    you said...
    6:30: You mention of filtering stats in 9man game. Problem with non HU stats in HU is their informative value. Many players change their game quite dramatically. So personally I prefer to have completely separated HU stats with option to double click and see what sort of player villain has been.

    That's a great point. When I play HU (in the times I used HUD) I at least wanted some stats rather than no stats. When I don't use a HUD, I just focus on how the person plays deep in the game to get an idea about how they may play differently than the early game.
  • GlitlrPS

    #24

    @ghaleon,

    you said...
    Eh... "Think of all those times that you would have folded and not run into AT, 77..."

    So do we also forget all those times when villain folded, called with K8, T8s/56s (happens). I really don't agree with such one sided result oriented thinking.

    I have also certainly 3bet shoved Ax versus too passive villains, but it also goes for term called "streamlining". I mean when you are multitabling a lot and happen to have 4 HU, 5 bubble spots and 10 other games in different spots there is no way to optimize your line versus each villain.

    _______
    If you enjoy being called by K8s and the like (and you are right, it does happen), then shove is fine. I've never been a fan of that so I always took more care in HU decisions.

    As for optimizing lines and such, it is very possible to do that while playing tons of tables. It just takes time.

    For "one sided results oriented thinking," just keep in mind that I like all sides. I definitely agree with what you are saying as it's very valid.

    hope this helps address your comments!
  • GlitlrPS

    #25

    @elekadammate,

    I never consulted with anyone about this strategy except just talking with some friends and teaching it to my students. It helped me a lot to play like this. In 70,000 games of all game types including MTTs, my largest downswing ever was 62 buy ins.
  • GlitlrPS

    #26

    @elekadammate,

    Sorry, I should have explained better. What I mean is, overtime I started to develop my own strategy that is fairly unique compared to the "normal" approach. There are definitely many things that players disagree with me on (and I'm okay with that). I just hope to share my own strategy with others and maybe they like what they hear - and, hey, maybe not.

    It's totally cool to disagree.

    It definetly helps my students do well though.
  • GlitlrPS

    #27

    @ghaleon,

    you said...
    48:20 J7o: Do you want to create more fold equity with J7o 3bb deep? I do like that line sometimes with like 76o that actually is behind lot of hands, but really J7o is monster and I don't want villain to think: "Oh I have 86o I would have called shove, but lets see free flop ---> Oh I missed lets fold"

    At this point in the game, shoving is fine since we are most likely going to lose the game anyway.
  • Andyuk18

    #28

    "I rather make a -EV call here with the reward of money than make a +EV shove worth no money.

    For me, money is more important than $EV. (note: the term "$EV" is misleading because it doesn't always gaurentee money)

    Hope this helps."

    I'm still not convinced with this reasoning. Vs a reg it can be justified, especially if the big stack is a big fish you can crush HU. Without a read it could be a terrible call. Surely you have better spots in future? Especially vs guys who will make many mistakes on the bubble.
  • damaquina

    #29

    As always 1st 4min doesn´t work...
  • elekadammate

    #30

    Thank you for the fast answer!
    I try to convince you of my idea.


    -----
    You said that you had 62 buy-in down swing thanks for your strategy
    -----
    In my view, you are paying for lower your variance. I see poker as not caring about variance, variance is my friend to have bigger winrate, like on the perfect investment market.
    Teaching this theory could poison the game of the student. For example not calling 4bb push on BTN w/ 22, because we are not dominate hands, having a high varinace. Not counting, that we have - i just say a number - 0.2 diff.
    Am I right? Are you playing poker as "paying" for lowering the variance?
    Or did i miss stg here?


    -----
    You said, You play a unique strategy. It's cool, to disagree with.
    -----
    ( 74s hand on 874 board, betting 25% of the pot )
    In my view a unique strategy is good, if it gains me more money. In my opinion we are losing money not playing the most profitable line. I not see any future read what developed in occasion of this hand.
    Did i miss something here?
    What is your plan to playing unortodox, with a less profitable line here?



    I respect your style. The fun stars, from creative plays.
    My comment aim to learn from your thinking process or try to help you.


    elekadammate
  • Tim64

    #31

    @#22 Why do you say the term '$EV' is misleading because "it doesn't always gaurentee money"? It's only misleading if people understand it to mean: "this play will win you money at this particular sit and go". If they understand it to mean 'this play has a positive expected value and will win you money in the long run' I don't see a source of confusion.
  • pleno1

    #32

    Love the discussion guys.
  • elekadammate

    #33

    #31 @Tim:
    I agree. IMC + Future game simulation (+ sometimes simple logic fgs for >2 hands) tell what earns you money, with the appropriate range building. In my opinion:
    What's +EV, you must play, that's all.
  • GlitlrPS

    #34

    @ elekadammate re: comment 30 "paying for lower variance"

    Great point. It depends on YOUR preferences. If players like huge swings (ups and downs) they should care less about controlling variance. If a player is like me (someone who would rather have consistent earnings without huge swings), then they will like this stuff.

    It's all a matter of preference.
  • GlitlrPS

    #35

    @Tim64,

    @#22 Why do you say the term '$EV' is misleading because "it doesn't always gaurentee money"? It's only misleading if people understand it to mean: "this play will win you money at this particular sit and go". If they understand it to mean 'this play has a positive expected value and will win you money in the long run' I don't see a source of confusion.

    Great point. $EV, though, doesn't gaurentee money. This is not my opinion, this is a fact. There is a big difference between "theoretical $EV" and actual money. In my T9o call, I actually win money. If I shove into the big stack, there is no actual money possible...only theoretical $EV.
  • GlitlrPS

    #36

    @damaquina,

    I'm so sorry, I'm not really sure why.
  • GlitlrPS

    #37

    @elekadammate,

    "What's +EV, you must play, that's all."

    Example: If someone offered you 1 billion dollars to jump out of an airplane with no parachute, would you do it? Extreme (and silly) example, but hopefully this helps get the idea across.

    -Matt
  • elekadammate

    #38

    #37:
    I definitley would not jump, but i don't get the example, because here, anyway i loose everything. But i accept, that is your preference.

    #35:
    In my view theoratical $EV leads you to gain money.
    In case of actual $EV, it's just luck, that it's possible, to bust somebody out.

    In both case we win $EV, to go better chance for the payout prices.
  • GlitlrPS

    #39

    @elekadammate,

    #35:
    In my view theoratical $EV leads you to gain money.
    In case of actual $EV, it's just luck, that it's possible, to bust somebody out.

    but it's not luck if you purposely take advantage of these situations
  • zilltine

    #40

    $EG > $EV imo
  • GlitlrPS

    #41

    @zilltine,

    What is $EG?
  • helemaalnicks

    #42

    I did pick up something from this, I should probably mix it up a bit more in HU, I usually kind of keep going, while in mtt's this could be too easy to exploit for villain.

    The a5o thing is something to think about as well, the veg(et)able opponent was rather fishy (called a lot oop) so maybe I underestimate my edge, something to think about at least.

    I totally disagree with your call with 98o though, I don't like that at all with such a short stack. Overall, nice video, maybe use the HEM replayer next time.
  • Targetme

    #43

    calling with 910 as a bottom range is fine but 75s where your never ahead? Its more optimul to just shove any two bvb even vs a perfect player.
  • helemaalnicks

    #44

    After thinking about this video, I just have to retract my earlier statement.

    This video is not worth the time watching it, it should maybe not even be uploaded.
  • tomasa82

    #45

    Thx
  • roobarhalRNMD

    #46

    i liked it & it's refreshing to hear someone deviate from normal/popular thought processes