9-Man SNG Throwdown - Member's Review

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In this video our coach Collin Moshman reviews 9-man STT played by one of our members, focusing on all the game stages.


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Comments (20)

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  • Svarogsam8


  • tonypmm


    I've just started watching the video but it looks like a great one judging by just the first minute :)

    I thought there was hardly any traffic on 9-mans at 888 these days (the 6-man superturbo traffic is still quite healthy at the $3-5 stakes) but Hero proves me wrong.

    As for the first hand @00:15 - if I raise preflop (over SB's openlimp) with Q4o, I do so as a pure bluff and I size it much smaller. I think 3 bb is usually enough to generate enough fold equity (60% or even more) and it's a much less expensive bluff than 4 bb. I don't know the population of 888's non-superturbo games, though - maybe they don't limp/reraise ever, and then the 4 bb raise wouldn't look all that risky. But anyway, Q4o is hard to play postflop even in position, so I'd still prefer a 3 bb bluffraise if not a checkback. 2.5 bb might also work but I bet that a typical 888poker customer doesn't fold often enough to 2.5 bb.
  • tonypmm


    The above is a pure speculation, of course - what Hero should do is to examine his own database and see how much SB limpers fold to BB's 2.5x / 3x / 4x raise and how often they fold to the cbet afterwards. I once did it for PKR (pre-Microgaming) jackpot games (25 bb deep) and I was quite surprised to see that people were folding so much more to a 3 bb raise than to a 2.5 bb one, so I opted to raise 3 bb as a bluff and 2.5 bb for value unless I saw that the player had noticed my sizing tell. But that was at another site and perhaps doesn't apply to 888.
  • tonypmm


    Erratum to #2: oops, I meant that the opponents don't limp/3bet - of course, 75 bb stacks are too deep for limp/shoving, I was thinking about 25 bb games and made a Freudian slip.
  • tonypmm


    @5:10 I guess that Hero might just have made a misclick thinking that it was a blind-vs-blind situation and he was in position. That's a small peril of 888's blind posting rules - one always has to watch where the dealer button is, to avoid mistakes in those hands where the small blind is skipped.
  • tonypmm


    @10:13 Bear in mind that BB is Eastern European ('v potoke' means 'in the stream' in Russian) and he has reglike stats so I expect him to exhibit the national tendency of calling tighter than Nash :p I don't mind the ATC shove here.
  • tonypmm


    @16:15 I prefer to tick the 'Flat Call' boxes. The pots that go postflop are split by HRC according to players' raw equities, and this method does underestimate the positional advantage, but I think using it is still better than the assumption that the blinds always play the shove-or-fold game facing a minraise. Look at SB's stats - his 3bet is 0% over 58 hands.

    Even better, you can tell HRC to do a calculation with flat calls allowed, and then manually narrow and lock BB's flatting range to take into account that he's 3bet-happy.
  • tonypmm


    One more pro tip about HRC: because the first 3 players have folded, you should have told HRC that they have folded (at the page of the dialog window that is next after the input of raise sizings) to speed the calculations up. Then you'd be able to get the result quite quickly even with flat calls enabled.
  • tonypmm


    Actually, I've just put this spot into HRC and allowed flat calls. Now it gives Hero a 19.4% minraising range (TT+ AQs+ ATs-A6s A4s ATo-A3o K8s-K6s K9o+ QTo+) and an 11.6% openshoving range (99-22 AJs A5s A3s-A2s AJo+ K9s+ Q8s+ J8s+ JTo T8s+ 98s) where 2-2 is a borderline hand (-0.02, and Hero actually folds 6% of his 2-2).
  • tonypmm


    The fact that the 'allow flat calls' setting has turned 3-3 into a clearly openshovable hand is thought-provoking.

    I reckon that the reason for that is because, once the blinds are given the opportunity to flat, HRC starts thinking that 99-66 are better off in the openshoving range than in the minraising one. And there are some other strong hands that are moved into the shoving range as well. Thus it becomes much stronger, in fact, so strong that SB now stacks off with a merely 7.7% range (66+ ATs+ AJo+) facing BTN's (Hero's) openshove, and BB does so with 9.2% (66+ ATs+ ATo+ KJs+). Hence the openshoves with 55-22 now have enough fold equity to become marginally OK.
  • tonypmm


    But of course 55-22 are not good as minraising / 2.5x raising hands unless Hero has a read on the blinds. They do reasonably well in preflop stackoffs because they flip as slight favorites vs the majority of villains' stackoff ranges; but they're rather unplayable postflop as the flop is very likely to contain overcards and the low pocket pairs are going to be bluffcatchers for all the 3 postflop streets.

    If I encountered this spot in game, I'd be a maniac and openshove. I had never thought it would be so close to an openfold. The more I watch, the more I learn...
  • tonypmm


    By 'bluffcatchers on all the streets', I meant the dynamic between regs in Spin & Gos (25 bb deep) when BTN minraises 55-22, one of the blinds flats and elects to check/raise the flop cbet. Then BTN can herocall with a pocket pair but can't do this with a no-pair hand (except ace high in some cases). Or, if the cbet is just called, BTN can double-barrel but check the river back (he'd usually triple-barrel without a pair) or check the turn to bluffcatch on the river.

    In SNGs, though, there's ICM pressure so I don't really like to give the opponents the opportunity to become aggressive postflop.
  • tonypmm


    @18:18 The large flop cbet looks like a typical misclick because it's exactly half of BB's stack minus half a chip. I think Hero failed to look at his own stack size (which I'm often guilty of myself) but only looked at BB's stack and decided to bet just under half of it in order to be able to 3bet-shove if BB 2bet-shoved the flop.

    Speaking of, if the other opponent is a reg (in the current hand, he looks such), there's some leveling caused by this 'reopen the betting' consideration. For some reason, I prefer to make the 'just under half the short stack' bets when I'm semibluffing, as it seems to me that such a bet looks like a valuebet (with a made vulnerable hand) to a reg who knows that rule about when the betting can or can't be reopened, as if I wanted sooo hard to get the stacks in on this very street and not give that reg a free card.
  • Titik


  • AlphaClock


    Good Job very similar to my type of play although I probably would have called with queen four to see a turn his range I am guessing he has a weak ace tops its a big bet but sometimes its worth the call depending on your opponent too good vid thanks for the advice :)
  • CollinMoshman


    Thanks AlphaClock and Svarogsam, glad you guys enjoyed the video :)

    Tony, nice comments! I'll respond to more of them soon but starting with the Q4, I'm not sure we'll get 60% folds with a 3x raise, but still agree with you that if we do decide to raise here that 4x is pretty large. Even if we get called pre, we can still get him into hit-to-win mode post with a smaller raise that has a better risk/reward ratio pre.
  • losperytos94


  • losperytos94


  • pokerschaft


    great !
  • w0wc1k


    Thank you , good article