in my opinion this are the reasons for the current situation:
1. 2+2 forums.
2.pokerstrategy- with their strategies and all...they taught the fish how to play...
they ruined poker in the past to ,when they introduced the sss(small stack strategy) till it gut banned in all sites!
the sites need to act again and lower the tables aloud open for every player
for a situation fix (from 24 to 10-12 or less).
and they will - but only when they see the profits rushing down again like with the sss...
Most people refuse to accept the fact that online poker is a pyramid scheme. It'll only work if fresh money keeps flooding in from the bottom level.
During the poker boom the amount of fresh money and number of players (including good players) has increased steadily, now the cash flow has started to dry up but the number of good players hasn't decreased in the same rate. So there's simply not enough money lying around for grabbing. Where did the money go? Some of it obviously was pocketed by winning players, but VAST MAJORITY of it was drained out by poker rooms (rake). Take a look at the pokertableratings.com list of winnings by countries. Add up all the won amounts and all the lost amounts. The gap between total losses and total money won is fucking mind boggling!
The so called "poker economy" sustains itself while idiot gamblers keep burning money. But will they? After all sorts of bans and the "reputable" Full Tilt going down, robbing people of their money? Why should they. To keep the cash flow up we need lots of new depositors, because the old ones often just quit after losing certain amount of money. We like to dream about an average Joe who deposits 1000$ every month, loses it and still thinks it's a good entertainment. Those people exist but they are few in numbers. Most people don't like losing money.
Originally posted by Dykiller
Originally posted by NightFrostaSS
And my dick is not what it used to be 10 years ago, but there's not much that we can do but to enjoy it while it's still working.So is your brain.
Brain, dick, what's the difference
I think what you guys are discussing about is something that is always common in todays life. I mean it is in every part of our lives where money was made. People always look how to earn themselves money. Pokerstrategy this way, Pokerstars the other way, we in some way. Everybody will settle down somewhere but the point is many more people go to universites and many people are trying to learn on cardrunners, pokerstrategy(all poker universities). The point is the current system, the neoliberalistic capitalisam(that came from the worst country in the world USA, my opinion) is taking us to the edge and always searching for us to improve. That is why it makes it so hard today. Only few of us has what it takes(talent,pashion, commitment) to achieve the high stakes. Like in real life we have to settle down in our own little world!
The bad regs are now the 'fish'
The game is still beatable. Its just harder then it was before.
This may be the case for the higher limits however I have seen the opposite in the micros. The game's publicity has attracted a new breed of players.
Lets call them try-hard pros. These players are semi-regulars and believe that they can easily crush the limit. Also, there still exists a smaller yet still present subsection of gambling fish.
These two groups leak an incredible amount of money into the online poker economy each year and there remains a lot of profit to be made from these people.
It may have gotten harder but there is still money to be made.
OMG the 'try hard pros' I love this.
The 10nl players who 3bet 15% and try and have serious FPS?
Originally posted by wnbMG
EDIT: Well, probably all facts are right, but you should understand that if there are 0.0000001% edge, you can allways make millions of poker.
sorry, but u are wrong
there is rake
when edge will get smaller than rake, rooms will lower it anyway.
when edge will get smaller than rake, rooms will lower it anyway.
Level?
In case you were'nt levelling I'd like to break another bad news - nobody cares if people are winning or not. Nobody needs a horde of people making money from poker. In fact, poker rooms don't like people drawing the money out of the circulation, they'd rather see it going around untill and rake it over and over again.
Anyways. Those micro try hard pros... Do they deposit often? Think not.
Originally posted by fuzzyfish
when edge will get smaller than rake, rooms will lower it anyway.
Level?
In case you were'nt levelling I'd like to break another bad news - nobody cares if people are winning or not. Nobody needs a horde of people making money from poker. In fact, poker rooms don't like people drawing the money out of the circulation, they'd rather see it going around untill and rake it over and over again.
Anyways. Those micro try hard pros... Do they deposit often? Think not.
but they need some percents of people to make profit. If noone makes profit, fish won't come. Will they?
Originally posted by fuzzyfish
Most people refuse to accept the fact that online poker is a pyramid scheme. It'll only work if fresh money keeps flooding in from the bottom level.During the poker boom the amount of fresh money and number of players (including good players) has increased steadily, now the cash flow has started to dry up but the number of good players hasn't decreased in the same rate. So there's simply not enough money lying around for grabbing. Where did the money go? Some of it obviously was pocketed by winning players, but VAST MAJORITY of it was drained out by poker rooms (rake). Take a look at the pokertableratings.com list of winnings by countries. Add up all the won amounts and all the lost amounts. The gap between total losses and total money won is fucking mind boggling!
The so called "poker economy" sustains itself while idiot gamblers keep burning money. But will they? After all sorts of bans and the "reputable" Full Tilt going down, robbing people of their money? Why should they. To keep the cash flow up we need lots of new depositors, because the old ones often just quit after losing certain amount of money. We like to dream about an average Joe who deposits 1000$ every month, loses it and still thinks it's a good entertainment. Those people exist but they are few in numbers. Most people don't like losing money.
This is, in my opinion, a brilliant post and summary on the current situation.
I will add,
I am NOT saying poker is rigged. I always laughed when people said this in forum as a way to explain their losses and beats. But I will add this:
It is mind blowing that we, including myself, put so much confidence on the 'system'. The fact is we have not clue of what is going on behind the curtains.
Would you play Blackjack? Most of you will answer: ''NO, because it is a -EV$ Game and I cannot expect to win in the long run''. Now will you play blackjack ONLINE? Let say on UltimateBet back in the day? I can't say their blackjack is rigged but I can't say otherwise, and with CEREUS background who know how many players lost to software scam.
I won't name any site affiliate with pokerstrategy, but the have 'better' names and reputation, ok. I never and still don't think poker is RIGGED. But I do think their 'super random shuffling' method is Action prone.
Back to the loyalty point issue, I think a good start would be to completely scrap those, lower the rake, and get down to what the business is really about, playing poker. Not farming points and making 24 tabling robots.
Originally posted by TheMoment
Originally posted by fuzzyfish
when edge will get smaller than rake, rooms will lower it anyway.
Level?
In case you were'nt levelling I'd like to break another bad news - nobody cares if people are winning or not. Nobody needs a horde of people making money from poker. In fact, poker rooms don't like people drawing the money out of the circulation, they'd rather see it going around untill and rake it over and over again.
Anyways. Those micro try hard pros... Do they deposit often? Think not.
but they need some percents of people to make profit. If noone makes profit, fish won't come. Will they?
Fish don't come when the hear that some people are playing 20 tables and pee in a bottle while making a decent buck, they come when they see Antonius make a hero call with pair of threes, Tony G telling his opponent to get on his bycicle and Phil Hellmuth freaking out. For idiot gamblers the poker is all about egotripping.
The poker boom has faded a little.... but just wait till poker goes back online in the US... poker boom II will start, and money will be easy picking.
Circulating around between networks also keeps me on edge and stops my game from getting stale.
I might be in the minority but since Denmark changed its gaming laws the tables have opened up and are filled with fish ♠_grin:
I don't think a day will ever come when a poker will not be beatable. It just can't happen because of human nature.
In 1930 Benjamin Graham came out with a book called Security Analysis which is considered the bible of modern day investments and I'm sure many of you know about it. That followed by a boom in financial analysis research and we are where we are today because of that. You have people doing MBA in finance all over the world you have CFAs specializing in investments and these guys dedicate a lot of time into learning how to invest and they still lose money from their investments. Just like Investments can't be perfected, poker can't be perfected. Now its so common for someone to do a course in finance and he has all the knowledge and tools at his disposal but end of the day there are so many factors that govern whether he'll make money in investments or not and a huge factor is how smart you are and how you USE THAT EDUCATION TO YOUR BENEFIT which is where the human touch comes in. 40 people in a class studying under the same teacher there's no way all of them end up being good.
No matter how advanced poker theory becomes, no matter how easy it is for people to win now there will sill always be losers and winners. 80 years after Graham told people how to invest people still make huge blunders people still lose money. Take the example of derivatives, a zero sum game where someone has to lose for someone else to gain and its the same damn thing there. You'll have professional traders with extensive education still losing money and being fired, do they not know how to trade, they do but they still lose.
So I think before poker becomes unbeatable financial markets should become unbeatable but thats never gonna happen cause there will always be people making mistakes no matter how advanced that science becomes and there will always be people who will know how to have an edge on the rest and beat the game.
+1
And i think the new edge in poker is psychological more than anything else.
Caros Law of Least Tilt: In a game of equally skilled players, the one with the most discipline is the favorite. 
The people with the edge now are the people who can keep it cool under pressure.
Agree 100% on that.I think disicipline is the numer 1 thing someone can have as an "edge" over his opponents.Especially for the micro-low+ players/grinders.
I for one lost a lot of bankrolls by starting playing good and losing some money due to variance but playing pretty good after that and then out of nowhere ( a retarded spot comes ) mega tilt PLO50 1 Stack/bankroll, evaporated.And stuff like that.
So yea I consider myself an ok player that studies the game and thinks over decisions at the table but has mega tilt issues ( so little self control and discipline ).So I'm basically a glorofied fish.Since in the end I still end up lgiving money away ( basic roll of a fish ).So see right there an example poker is not unbeatable.There are plenty people worser that me and plenty of people much better that still have a lot of tilt issues and it eats away at their bankrolls.
Originally posted by martiangoblin
The poker boom has faded a little.... but just wait till poker goes back online in the US... poker boom II will start, and money will be easy picking.
For me maybe, but not for most of the people here. The US doesn't give work visas for professional gamblers.
The US doesn't give work visas for professional gamblers.
Yea i meant when online poker is entirely legalized in the US and the rec players come back online, then the second poker boom will start.
Originally posted by martiangoblin
Yea i meant when online poker is entirely legalized in the US and the rec players come back online, then the second poker boom will start.
You do understand that US players are never coming back to the worldwide player pool right? The most logical step for the next 5-10 years is a few states allowing ring-fenced games for their residents.
