[Closed] Full Tilt Poker De-Tracks all PokerStrategy.com Players

Originally posted by MatejM47
I can't believe you guys think that regs won't play on FTP just because they don't get some points on some affiliate site. We're here to make money not some stupid points after all. And if full tilt does indeed get more fishy then other sites then obviously everyone's going to play there.

All in all the players really don't lose that much here. Yeah it sucks to lose the status here but really that doesn't give me nearly enough benefits to even consider not playing there. Being able to play on both sites for the best game selection is far superior then watching some vids here.

The only one losing big here is pokerstrategy.com since a lot of the current regs will go back to FTP so thats going to be a big drop of income and it seems like they can't do anything about it.

People who play at the stakes that you are and put in the volume that you do I believe that you don't care much about PokerStrategys videos and such. But for those lower stakes players like me who still can improve their game a lot that learning material means quite a bit. At the stakes where I'm playing table selection is not a problem and I can honestly say that this latest development is a deal breaker for me. I was going to play on FT for sure but now I will have to play somewhere else just so I can get my gold status.

we are still worried about the negative effects to tracked players. Mainly that they will no longer be able to earn StrategyPoints, which allow them to gain or maintain their status and access to our educational content

This is a pokerstrategy decision. Players signed up through pokerstrategy on the basis that their accounts created in this way would benefit from strategy points. This seems a lot like moving the goal posts on players in a similar way to FTP is doing to you.

Pokerstrategy is now dictating that these account will not earn strategy points. The cost to Pokerstrat of allowing points to be earned is minimal - the reason for this is to persuade players to move to another site which will benfit Pokerstrats bottom line.

I have no problem with this (you are running a business), but this does all seem a bit hypocritical.

Originally posted by JonikoP

we are still worried about the negative effects to tracked players. Mainly that they will no longer be able to earn StrategyPoints, which allow them to gain or maintain their status and access to our educational content

This is a pokerstrategy decision. Players signed up through pokerstrategy on the basis that their accounts created in this way would benefit from strategy points. This seems a lot like moving the goal posts on players in a similar way to FTP is doing to you.

Pokerstrategy is now dictating that these account will not earn strategy points. The cost to Pokerstrat of allowing points to be earned is minimal - the reason for this is to persuade players to move to another site which will benfit Pokerstrats bottom line.

I have no problem with this (you are running a business), but this does all seem a bit hypocritical.

Hey JonikoP,

Not sure if I understand you correctly, but no longer granting SP is definitely not a PokerStrategy decision. StrategyPoints are not automatically generated, but based on the activity data reported to us by the poker rooms. That means in order to grant SP we need to have working tracking and reporting in order to know how much rake the users generate. As Full Tilt has decided to remove this tracking, this is no longer possible.

Best regards
SoyCD

I'm pretty sure they would give you the data, as it encourages people to play on their site.

Could this mean I won't be able to access the money I earned and unlocked from the original 50 dollars PS gave me on FTP?

Originally posted by JonikoP
I'm pretty sure they would give you the data, as it encourages people to play on their site.

Hi JonikoP-

Unfortunately, we have no contractual relationship with Full Tilt Poker, which is a mandatory predeterminate before we can enter into data feed exchanges for granting StrategyPoints.

Besides the necessary contractual obligation, and even if your assumptions that Full Tilt Poker would provide the data through a processing agreement were to hold true, we have to consider our cost base.

While we understand your views, I think the cost of education is often times overlooked. Even though it might seem like granting StrategyPoints comes cheap, PokerStrategy.com actually employs around 190 full time employees and over 500 freelancers and coaches.

Although we wish it were as easy as you say, it does takes serious effort and money to operate the world’s largest poker community and poker school across our 19 different languages.

But despite that, and as the original news release states, we offered a substantial and drastic reduction in our commission structure to ensure we could continue to offer our educational content to the hundreds of thousands of poker players that chose to signup through us.

Unfortunately, that wasn’t enough and our offers were refused.

-ido1um

Originally posted by JonikoP
I'm pretty sure they would give you the data, as it encourages people to play on their site.

If I understand you correctly than I have a suggestion for you: climb off of that rainbow unicorn you are riding and stop spamming! Your hippy lullabies are not helping anyone.

Originally posted by Railrock
Could this mean I won't be able to access the money I earned and unlocked from the original 50 dollars PS gave me on FTP?

Hi Railrock-

That's a good question, but something that we unfortunately don't know the answer to.

I can only suggest that you drop Full Tilt Poker an email to see if their support knows how they'll handle the Free $50 funding that PokerStrategy.com previously provided.

support@fulltiltpoker.com

Thanks.

-ido1um

Woah I have been out of the loop. So we can get back our money at ftp?

I thought my money was gone!

happy happy joy joy.

♦

In my opinion, PS aren't looking at this as stolen income.

For over a year FTP hasn't even been a part of their revenue. So if they weren't receiving money until now who cares if they don't receive money in the future.

I think their main concern is that other rooms will take after FTP and will try and find loop holes to get out of their contracts. If this should occur in the future it will kill their revenues in a major way. I guess that's why they have ventured into the world of Forex, as Forex companies number in the hundreds and that's not even including Binary Options companies (Good move PS).

As someone who works in the online gaming industry and deals with players from PS.com, I can say that they bring a lot of high quality traffic to the sites. Their high percentage demand is justified, even though it reduces my monthly bonus at the end of the month.

I feel it's a stab in the back for them.

For all of those who wrote that no one needs affiliates today has obviously never run a business. Affiliates are your "word of mouth" (advertising) on the web. If you have a good relationship with them they'll praise you and recommend you if not you're in trouble.

When new players have no clue which room to pick they look for the best offer. With no affiliates at FTP and probably ~30-40% of the players withdrawing and leaving they will regret this move.

Don't bite the hand that feeds you.

My gut instinct tells me that this is just a move to get out of old existing contracts and create new ones. Players will be tracked to PS at some point, FTP just has to assess their financial situation first in the first couple of months before thy can go hand half of their revenue to affiliates.

Mmmmm was i supposed to say that (50% of player income to affiliate).

and don’t mind if our organization would suffer from this unilateral de-tracking, we are still worried about the negative effects to tracked players. Mainly that they will no longer be able to earn StrategyPoints, which allow them to gain or maintain their status and access to our educational content.

Ya and! I don´t mind at all PokerStrategy.

In the end this really won´t effect me in any negative way and may help with less PS rock´s at the tables meaning losser games.(hopefully ♦)

This month's hot topic. Since it's easier to post my opinion only one time, I will do it here:

We should stick to the facts. Tiltware Inc, RedKings Ltd etc etc etc have been former legal entities which managed the brand FullTiltPoker and all its contracts (like affiliation contracts). There are 2 main forms of mergers and acquisitions. I don't know the deals' details, but we have to assume Rational Entertainment Enterprises Limited (Stars) only bought a few assets and didn't buy all the legal entities aka singular succession. One part of the deal was to pay back player's bankrolls. But it seems like the affiliation contracts haven't been part (and obv for good business reasons we have to assume). FTPnew will save more money not working with affiliates (or under different terms from Q2 2013+) than they gain from it, it's mostly a bigger math example to solve.

Yes, the brand FullTiltPoker and the software is the same, but nothing else. They could have offered the same affiliation program, or even a new one or - like they do now - none. Seems absolutely legit to me.

If there is anybody to blame, it's Tiltware Inc, RedKings Ltd and all the other companies involved in this huge mess and all the managers involved! Not the company on the Isle of Man though that just made a strategic investment. Definitely thrilling times for lawyers on both Rational and PStrategy side. I would love to read the term sheets of the initial deal, but I'm afraid nobody is going to show me. For personal benefits as a player, I hope Pokerstrategy finds a little hole in the legal sheets and we get our rake races, points and Rb back - I highly doubt it though. As for Rakeback, isn't that even more complicated since players tracked through Pokerstrategy have a contract with Pokerstrategy regarding the monthly RB payments? This money has never been paid by FTP, but by PS .... So a player cannot claim RB from FTP but only from Pokerstrategy's part of their affiliation commission. But since this commission doesn't get paid anymore, we are fu**ed.

Ofc it hurts us as players. FTP and PP have always been my main sites. It's likely I will play mostly FTP next months, so I lose all monthly points and all BlackMemberParties Ofc it hurts PokerStrategy since a huge revenue stream is gone. However, what's the point in whining? Mindset anyone? We have to deal with a new situation imo. As far as I am concerned, I have a choice to make. I can get my money back and don't have to play a single hand on their site if I feel treated in an unfair way. Nobody has to play on FTP. Im glad I get my moniez back, but it's not my right to tell this company to give me e.g. 48% flat RB just because it would be nice or 27% just because "it's always been that way". It doesn't matter what has been, it only matters what will be. From reading the news and the forums (english and german) it feels like everyone is just complaining. That's not how winning is done, ask Rocky!! Why are we not looking how to make the very best out of this new situation? Isn't that what a poker school should teach us? Yes we have (all) been put into unfavorable situations ... so what? I'm definitely not wasting my time crying. Everyone should just make the best out of it and keep the complaints low. Especially since we don't know details how it will all develop in the mid-term.

I really hope Party.Bwin/Zynga/Ipoker will form a strong entity one day. Otherwise Rational Entertainment will control the entire Poker market one day. There are probably worse poker-world-dominators out there (e.g. former FTP board of directors) but a monopoly can never be beneficial for the majority of the market participants.

The moral of the post: we should look for solutions, not flame! One solution can be to cashout and play on other sites, one can be to just write e-mails to support@ftp and one can be to not play on Stars anymore (as it would also hurt the mother company). Or we just choose to not care and continue playing on FTP since they will offer a pretty good service I assume. Solutions > Problems imo!

sry im a fish and quotes myself ♦

Hi JonikoP-

Unfortunately, we have no contractual relationship with Full Tilt Poker, which is a mandatory predeterminate before we can enter into data feed exchanges for granting StrategyPoints.

Besides the necessary contractual obligation, and even if your assumptions that Full Tilt Poker would provide the data through a processing agreement were to hold true, we have to consider our cost base.

While we understand your views, I think the cost of education is often times overlooked. Even though it might seem like granting StrategyPoints comes cheap, PokerStrategy.com actually employs around 190 full time employees and over 500 freelancers and coaches.

Although we wish it were as easy as you say, it does takes serious effort and money to operate the world’s largest poker community and poker school across our 19 different languages.

But despite that, and as the original news release states, we offered a substantial and drastic reduction in our commission structure to ensure we could continue to offer our educational content to the hundreds of thousands of poker players that chose to signup through us.

Unfortunately, that wasn’t enough and our offers were refused.

-ido1um

Thanks for the reply ido1um - it's a business decision which I understand.

It would be very helpful if we can address top level management of both PokerStars and Full Tilt Poker directly.

Sending anything to support@fulltiltpoker.com is same as sending it to litter bin.

Can you advise top level management email addresses? E.g. through PM?

Thanks

Funktor

The battle against de-tracking accounts is based on the whole community (if it can be intimidating enough if united), and the flexibility and persuasion of PS.

But even than we're talking about stars here and their monopoly and most of us play on stars anyway.
I mean I can say I won't play at FTP if they un-track me, but they probably would just laugh at me already knowing from the FTP player database that I play on stars.. untracked...

FTP is gonna get boycotted so hard! ♦

Originally posted by YohanN7
As much as I love hanging around PS. As unfair towards the old tracked players...

This is the plain truth:
Affiliating is, as a phenomenon, needed just as much as a pimple in the arse. It should never have begun.

(That made me popular, right?)

/Johan =

Meh, this.

May I then suggest that Strategy ends their business agreement with Stars?

Originally posted by w34z3l
FTP is gonna get boycotted so hard! ♦

People will talk about it for a week (or 11 days ♠_biggrin: ) and then they'll rush to FTP tables. That's just the way of live. People get over these things and move on with their lives.

Originally posted by OlaBrandborn
May I then suggest that Strategy ends their business agreement with Stars?

When we look back to this thing in a couple of years we are not going to remember Stars being a big bad wolf but a saving angel who got all of yous monies back. Why in the gods name would Pokerstrategy stop doing business with PokerStars - stars being the biggest in business?

People are selfish. There are no selfless good deeds. Pokerstars is just looking out for themselves and even PokerStrategy has its best interest in mind.

I'm not saying that people can't do anything good without hoping to get something in return, but after all - even all the helpful guys probably get a good feeling about helping others (even though they might not be asking for money or return of the favor). That's just selfish... ♠_grin: