I really hoped that the winnable coaching would engourage people to post thoughts about this, PLO2 or PLO overall in this thread. Along with the guessing.
But that didn't happen, wrong reads. 
Notifications
Clear all
Originally posted by Kyyberi
I really hoped that the winnable coaching would engourage people to post thoughts about this, PLO2 or PLO overall in this thread. Along with the guessing.
Oh, we were supposed to do that? OK, let me state the obvious, and I'm sure lots of people think the same.
22bb/100 rake is huuuuuuugeee. Even if you manage to beat the rake, it would be impressive.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the rake at PLO5 is lower, the opponents are basically the same, and your winrate per hour will therefore be like 4x bigger.
Conclusion: PLO2 is a shitty way to build a bankroll ♦ I don't think that a beginning player, not a coach, can get out of the microstackes if he only plays plo zoom. By the way the rooms in microgaming have super low rake on NL4, so they might be a better place for such a challenge.
The rake is lowest at PLO2. At PLO5 it is little higher. If I remember right the rake is 3.5% at PLO2 and 4% at PLO5. The thing that might confuse here is that I have won, which means I pay more rake. The more you win, the higher your paid rake is. And playing style matters too. I have played very aggressive for those first 1K hands. Now let's compare 3 different breakeven players (rake 4%):
Nit: folds a ton preflop, usually loses small pots or wins small pots. Within 100 hands he has won 5 pots average of 20bb and lost 5 pots of same amount. Out of those wins he has paid 4bb total as rake.
TAG: plays more pots, wins more pots. Sometimes small, sometimes bigger. Within those 100 hands he has won 5 pots average of 20bb, and 5 pots average of 60bb. And of course lost the same amount in other pots. Out of the winning pots he has paid 16bb total as rake.
LAG: plays a lot of pots. Usually loses big pots or wins big pots. Within 100 hands he has won 5 pots average of 20bb, 5 pots average of 60bb and 3 pots average of 200bb. And of course lost the same amount in other pots. Out of those winning pots he has paid 40bb total as rake.
So you can see that playing laggy increases the rake bb/100 amount. As I said earlier, playing that laggy in PLO2 isn't the optimum strategy, not even close. But it's fun.
I thought about this today. Do I want to continue playing aggressively, or do I want to see what I can achieve in 20K hands while playing more profitable style. And I think I will go to profit way. It might be hard, but I will reduce my 3betting frequency and focus more on getting max value postflop.
And yes, usually it is nice if someone talks about something in blogs. Interactivity, you know 
20/25
Amazing you can still beat this after paying so much in rake.
I would consider playing PLO if the rake was not so crazy high.
If you can beat this for 20/100 and rake is 20/100 there are probably some
- 40bb/100 players in this game right.
Microgaming caps the rake at 10c for plo4, all in or not. It helps the players are mostly 'enjoying the games recreationally' as well. ♦
Originally posted by Kyyberi
I really hoped that the winnable coaching would engourage people to post thoughts about this, PLO2 or PLO overall in this thread. Along with the guessing.But that didn't happen, wrong reads.
we just want the freebiesanyway, talking about plo, i went on to random.org and told it to generate me some possible winrates
21/28 gogogo
2K mark is 32/19. For the rake discussion my current rake is still 22bb/100. At Stars you get most points for rake at PLO2, as it's 12VPP per raked dollar. So the VIP-system is pretty good for PLO2 players. Low rake, good rakeback.
If you focus 100% for value, and just make pot bets and raises, you should crush PLO2 pretty easily. There are guys who are betting 3 streets for value with top pair, another one called river pot bet with bare aces when the river paired the board AND completed a flush AND a straight. 60bb river bet, aces are good?
I run pretty bad for the most of today's session. People calling 4bets with KKT3r type of hands and hitting 933 flops etc. The normal stuff, and great stuff, but it doesn't show profit in small samples. But then I won 500bb pot with nut straight, villain called flop with bottom oesd, hit the bottom end straight on turn and paid full value at turn and river. Didn't even think, snapcalled.
The thing I have learned (once again) that you just can't put people on ranges. They take so akward lines with nuts, air and everything between, that it's virtually impossible to figure out ranges. So I have to just look at my hand, and think how it does against the overall range (which is pretty wide) of opponent. Of course when someone raises they always have a strong hand. But then again I have seen such an idiotic raises that it just makes my head spin.
I still have to learn to fold at river, my river calling efficiency is 0.96. That is bad, even when villain bets 1/5 of a pot on river it rarely is a bluff.
Remember that 3K update is when the guessing ends and no more bets are accepted. I suppose that happens tomorrow, so be quick! If someone has made 2 or more guesses, the first one only applies. If the winner is unable to take the coaching, he can't give it to anyone else. Then the next in the line is taken. This is to ensure that no one cheats and asks friends to guess (as the prizepool is SOOOOOO huge).
I'm actually starting a somewhat similar PLO-project myself. I'll be posting my guess soon.
How many hands you've already played?
- Petteri
Originally posted by Kyyberi
2K mark is 32/19. For the rake discussion my current rake is still 22bb/100. At Stars you get most points for rake at PLO2, as it's 12VPP per raked dollar. So the VIP-system is pretty good for PLO2 players. Low rake, good rakeback.If you focus 100% for value, and just make pot bets and raises, you should crush PLO2 pretty easily. There are guys who are betting 3 streets for value with top pair, another one called river pot bet with bare aces when the river paired the board AND completed a flush AND a straight. 60bb river bet, aces are good?
I run pretty bad for the most of today's session. People calling 4bets with KKT3r type of hands and hitting 933 flops etc. The normal stuff, and great stuff, but it doesn't show profit in small samples. But then I won 500bb pot with nut straight, villain called flop with bottom oesd, hit the bottom end straight on turn and paid full value at turn and river. Didn't even think, snapcalled.
The thing I have learned (once again) that you just can't put people on ranges. They take so akward lines with nuts, air and everything between, that it's virtually impossible to figure out ranges. So I have to just look at my hand, and think how it does against the overall range (which is pretty wide) of opponent. Of course when someone raises they always have a strong hand. But then again I have seen such an idiotic raises that it just makes my head spin.
I still have to learn to fold at river, my river calling efficiency is 0.96. That is bad, even when villain bets 1/5 of a pot on river it rarely is a bluff.
Remember that 3K update is when the guessing ends and no more bets are accepted. I suppose that happens tomorrow, so be quick! If someone has made 2 or more guesses, the first one only applies. If the winner is unable to take the coaching, he can't give it to anyone else. Then the next in the line is taken. This is to ensure that no one cheats and asks friends to guess (as the prizepool is SOOOOOO huge).
Cool story, on PLO2 at ipoker they won't pay me of 3 streets with somethin like top pair etc. I do feel however that you can't put them on ranges, accept for when 65/1 players start 3betting :f_biggrin:. Also, some players tend to slowplay an awfull lot, like checking back flopped quad kings 4way in position 
Originally posted by Tomaloc
Originally posted by Kyyberi
I really hoped that the winnable coaching would engourage people to post thoughts about this, PLO2 or PLO overall in this thread. Along with the guessing.But that didn't happen, wrong reads.
we just want the freebiesanyway, talking about plo, i went on to random.org and told it to generate me some possible winrates
21/28 gogogoHey, no cheating!
Originally posted by TiciBoy
Not a PLO player (yet), but here it goes...21/28
