20K hands in PLO2 ZOOM, win a coaching!

Originally posted by CPallo
You can't beat fish in MIKRO Omaha with std. play, never :)) There's just too many vill. to outdraw you with their GSSD.

So you say that you can't win cos the opponent is so bad?

no money in poker, everyone fishy

Sort of a rungood. Played small 370 hand session, +9bin in EV and winnings.

8K hands down, and last 1K hands were nice +12bin. Stats are now looking more like they should, as I stand at 8/10. Rake is pretty much 20bb/100 still.

We have had some intense discussions in our community about should one play bare nuts aggressively on flop or not when deep stacked. Some players think that if you get a deep stack in with bare nuts, you are usually always against the same nuts and a redraw. While I have been saying that there are a lot of people who are shoving or playing aggressively whole bunch of cards outside the nuts. Here is an example, how villain plays his set + blocker to own outs:

Poker Stars, $0.01/$0.02 No Limit Omaha Cash, 6 Players

BTN: $0.97 (48.5 bb)
Hero (SB): $6.81 (340.5 bb)
BB: $1.52 (76 bb)
UTG: $1.32 (66 bb)
MP: $3.57 (178.5 bb)
CO: $5.53 (276.5 bb)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 7 Q Q 9
UTG raises to $0.07, MP folds, CO calls $0.07, BTN folds, Hero calls $0.06, BB folds

Flop: ($0.23) 5 8 6 (3 players)
Hero bets $0.18, UTG folds, CO raises to $0.61, Hero raises to $2.05, CO calls $1.44

Turn: ($4.33) T (2 players)
Hero bets $4.18, CO calls $3.41 and is all-in

River: ($11.15) 4 (2 players, 1 is all-in)

Results:

I think his raise on flop is horrible. It only isolates himself against better hands, and forces me to fold pretty much everything he might get value of. And when he raise-calls, it is so obvious that he has a set. If the turn pairs, I will snapfold when he bets. Now if he was my student, I would ask him "why did you raise on the flop? Why is raising better than calling?". And I bet he would have hard time to explain that in logical way. So kids, don't do that at home!

9K done! And I marked two nice hands for your pleasure.

Poker Stars, $0.01/$0.02 No Limit Omaha Cash, 6 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

BTN: $1.94 (97 bb)
SB: $3.30 (165 bb)
Hero (BB): $6.42 (321 bb)
UTG: $1.84 (92 bb)
MP: $0.65 (32.5 bb)
CO: $10.81 (540.5 bb)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 2 8 A A
UTG calls $0.02, 3 folds, SB raises to $0.08, Hero calls $0.06, UTG calls $0.06

Flop: ($0.24) 7 A 5 (3 players)
SB bets $0.23, Hero raises to $0.92, UTG folds, SB calls $0.69

Turn: ($2.08) 3 (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $2.01, SB raises to $2.30 and is all-in, Hero calls $0.29

River: ($6.68) 7 (2 players, 1 is all-in)

Results:

1 outer for the win! This is why I run so much under EV.

This second one is more interesting:

Poker Stars, $0.01/$0.02 No Limit Omaha Cash, 6 Players

BTN: $2.06 (103 bb)
Hero (SB): $8.50 (425 bb)
BB: $3.16 (158 bb)
UTG: $1.87 (93.5 bb)
MP: $0.89 (44.5 bb)
CO: $6.07 (303.5 bb)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 8 K Q K
4 folds, Hero raises to $0.06, BB calls $0.04

Villain is 81/31/13, with 29% fold to cbet. Aggressions on flop/turn/river are 38/67/43. Not that many hands, but it shows that he is an aggressive player that doesn't like folding.

Flop: ($0.12) 2 K 8 (2 players)
Hero bets $0.12, BB calls $0.12

Flopped the nuts, easy bet.

Turn: ($0.36) A (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $0.10, Hero raises to $0.65, BB calls $0.55

He didn't 3bet, so I have the nuts still. Went for a check-raise cos I think he has a lot of flushdraws in his range and he is most likely to bet them when I check. And then when I raise pot he makes a mistake if he calls it with his draw. But he bets so small, I still go for a check-raise cos otherwise I just give him the odds to draw his flush. I don't mind telling him I have a great made hand, as he needs to get around $1 for value at river to justify his turn call. If heart comes, I will check-fold.

River: ($1.66) 3 (2 players)
Hero bets $0.96, BB raises to $2.33 and is all-in, Hero calls $1.37

I really thought what to do here. If I check, he should check it back as I don't think that many players would check-fold a set/top2 here. That 3:d is sort of a blank. I might go for a blockerbet, to induce a bluff from him. And I still think that it might be the best line. As his range is so heavy on draws, instead of made hands that would call my big bet. So something like 45c would be nice bet. He might see it as a bet-fold line, and raise as a bluff. But now he shoves, which I didn't expect to happen. He is repping backdoor straight with 52xx. As that doesn't hit the flop at all, he is repping a very narrow range. If he has some sort of a 543x he really needs to have high flush card there too. And as K:h is gone, he should have A:h. Now if he has a wrap and a flushdraw on the turn, he would shove it often. As he is an aggressive player, there are more bluffs in his range than 52xx. So I call, and this time I was right. Still ballsy move, I haven't really seen a lot of over 100bb river raises as a bluff.

Results:

And the stats after 9K hands: 11/20.

Halfway there! 10K hands done, winrates 16/24.

I think I have found the right balance, in the beginning of the project I tried to bet people off from the pots and make river bluffs thinking "he can't have a strong hand, so he must fold". They don't fold. So in the last few thousand hands I have played mostly for value, and in position. And against aggros I have check-called a lot of rivers with bluff catchers, works great.

You had found the perfect tactic on micros, congratz! Stations can be beaten by value bets and by betting on some HU pots where neither of you hit a thing ♦

GL with projectt

The end is almost near! 12K done, winnings are 14/18.

The fun fact is that after 20K hands I have grinded Gold level at PokerStrategy. That is about 30 hours of playing. With 10SP's per day bonus, it would take 45h a week to grind Platinum level. So it is possible to get Platinum from PLO2. That would be a sick prop bet, 180 hours of PLO2 Zoom in a month!

180 hours of PLO2 Zoom in a month is easily achievable.
Doing it while keeping your sanity is a lot harder though

One member asked if I could make a video of PLO2 Zoom. I really don't want to, cos the way you are making money in PLO2 gets you killed in PLO10. Here is one example.

Poker Stars, $0.01/$0.02 No Limit Omaha Cash, 6 Players

BTN: $2.88 (144 bb)
Hero (SB): $2 (100 bb)
BB: $2 (100 bb)
UTG: $1.89 (94.5 bb)
MP: $2 (100 bb)
CO: $8.65 (432.5 bb)

Preflop: Hero is SB with J T T 5
4 folds, Hero raises to $0.06, BB calls $0.04

Crappy hand, but I wont give my blind against 33/12/6 easy-to-read opponent.

Flop: ($0.12) 7 9 7 (2 players)
Hero bets $0.10, BB calls $0.10

I have overpair and a gutshot. The standard line against this type of player is to bet and see what he does. If he has trips or better he will raise.

Turn: ($0.32) Q (2 players)
Hero bets $0.20, BB calls $0.20

Once he calls the flop his range is mostly flush and straight draws. People don't like to draw gutshots when there is a flush draw too, and I block a lot of straight draws. So he has more flush draws in his range than straight draws. Turn is blank, so I bet. I could have bet bigger though.

River: ($0.72) Q (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $0.42, Hero calls $0.42

River is a great card. It really blocks his possibility to Qxxx. If he has an overpair he won't bet it. Now if I bet he just folds all the worse hands. But won't really fold any better hands, so my bet would be totally useless. If I check, he will check back with a lot of his better hands. And he will bet a lot of his worse hands. So checking is superior to betting, as long as the plan is to check call.

Results:

13K, check.

Was able to maintain decent winrates, standing at 22/19 atm.

If I keep the same winrate, the ones who are hunting the coaching are:

Riverdiver 23/19
jmackenzie 24/18
peche025 24/22
Tomaloc 20/23
Rammie 18/18
ujwal 18/20
Uldis90 19/23

Of course the numbers can change a lot, so almost anyone can win. Still 7K hands to go!

14K update. Had a real runbad. Insane amount of hands where I get +90% of my stack in on flop or turn while ahead, and villain calls without odds. And then spikes his gutshot, weak flushdraw, 2 outer set etc. Those will even out in the long run, but propably not in this 20K sample. Luckily I also won a lot of pots, so the stats are almost the same.

Current run: 23/18

Which one is the tie-breaker? EV or actual winrate?

Originally posted by Riverdiver
Which one is the tie-breaker? EV or actual winrate?

From the first page:

Points for both guesses will be added together, and the one with fewest points will win. In case of tie they both win! Or if there can be multiple winners!

Almost there, 15K mark bypassed. Had a rungood this time, important numbers are 26/18. My preflop stats are 30/21/9 if someone is interested. And rake is still 20bb/100.

very interesting how in NLHE having such a big gap between VPIP and PFR is considered a sin, and in PLO its standart.

Do you have open limping range from any position (including SB)?

What do you think about open limp/3betting AAA* or very weak AA** on certain tables?

Originally posted by meepwn
very interesting how in NLHE having such a big gap between VPIP and PFR is considered a sin, and in PLO its standart.

Do you have open limping range from any position (including SB)?

What do you think about open limp/3betting AAA* or very weak AA** on certain tables?

In PLO the equities run much closer, and position is huge advantage, so you call in position when you don't want to 3bet or fold. In Holdem you can't hit the board that often, and you really can't represent a lot of things when floating. Or you can, but no one ever believes you. But in PLO you can represent so much, as the showdown hands are very polarized. Usually a big bet is either nuts or air, so calling them with mediocore hands isn't easy. In PLO2 a lot of players just tell their hand strength with their flop + turn betsizes.

My open limping range is made of misclicks. Sometimes I might just complete from the SB, depending on opponent(s). Limp-3betting is a great way to lose your money, as everyone knows your hand. And you can't get 1/3 of your stack in (which would negate the advantage of knowing your hand). So when opponent knows your hand and you can't commit preflop, it equals losing money.

Originally posted by totte1992
27/17 GL !

Gogo me

You mentioned that some players reveal their hand with bet-sizes.. You did it, too, when you played against me one day ;D hohoo..

Did I? Can you post the hand to here or to my other blog(s), always nice to discuss about hands when both players can share their view.