Pokerstrategy members scammed by Damian Copeland, "Spungeh"

Originally posted by supeyrio
i'm deff amazed now, you cannot beat 6max 200nl(base on your graph you run at ev-$6.25/100hands and u run a redline of approx -$15/100hands or -7.5bb/100hands) but you think you can beat someone at 2table nl400 HU, i reckon you'd have a greater edge at a roulette table...
you claim to be broke, but yet can play at such stakes at the point of time when your stake is in such a mess. whether the your $ or not is besides the point really.

think you're going of the point, and making the topic about something that its not, but to point a few things out

NL200 SH is a completely different game to NL400 HU, against the right person I could beat NL1k.. The game isn't whats important, its who you are playing again. At the time of playing, I had an edge over the guy I was playing.

For your enjoyment.

Poker Stars, $2/$4 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 2 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

Hero (SB): $407.50 (101.9 bb)
BB: $518.50 (129.6 bb)

Preflop: Hero is SB with K K
Hero raises to $12, BB raises to $40, Hero calls $28

Flop: ($80) 5 3 9 (2 players)
BB bets $44, Hero raises to $176, BB calls $132

Turn: ($432) J (2 players)
BB bets $302.50 and is all-in, Hero calls $191.50 and is all-in

River: ($815) 7 (2 players, 2 are all-in)

Results:

I think people need to realise that anyone can lose money over the sample that this stake is, and also realise this stake is to get it solved, not for a bitching session. Although im happy to answer decent questions.

Im just glad you went on nl400 to a fellow country men of mine ♦ because dispite ur shadyness, u seem to have just been caught in a heavy tilt orcane. I see a lot from you that i had way back in the past, but WHY THE FUCK is it too hard to just play what u master (wish i had ur balls, just without the hunger for stake to play higher) ♠_love:

If u dont feel like a boss no more, start at 5$, and build and build. Take much less time than u think, and this way u learn way more. (It removes ur ego to think u can beat a game u cant) but it also gets u ahead of ur limit in a prober way.

Are u simply 'too good' to play nl10 12-50 tabling with a super agr approach to just build ur confidence AND for the fun! And for the feeling of turning dimes into cars?

Originally posted by Spungeh

Originally posted by staktas

Oh rly?

One of the reasons in which why people should really not take everything they see..

When the stake ended with mindan, I came into some money (in which has been proven to mindan (and whoever he sent it to)) and that is what I played NL400HU with, not with mindans money, not with a stake.

This also shows the date as being a few days ago, which should confirm that it wasn't under stake, fwiw.

If this is the case, why didn't you return the money from the previous stake (the stake with me, maritsula and liessens)?

Instead you used this extra money you came into for playing higher stakes than you usually play which in my opinion can be only seen as gambling.

Originally posted by pucilpet

If this is the case, why didn't you return the money from the previous stake (the stake with me, maritsula and liessens)?

Instead you used this extra money you came into for playing higher stakes than you usually play which in my opinion can be only seen as gambling.

what? The whole point of a stake is to play without the financial risk, or because you don't have the money.

Why if i took a stake and lost would i return that stake when its on a completely unrelated reason to why i now have money?

I havn't come into several 100k.

If i was to have made you loads of money, then i went "oh im in money now, can i have all the money i made you, and ill return the original stake back?" you wouldn't do it.

What you are saying is the same thing, you are basically going "I staked you, you lost, I want my stake back"

Originally posted by maritsula

6. Due to his mistakes and his unprofessionalism he offered to pay back 50% of my initial investment which was agreed on my behalf.

7. The payment day for my 50% was on the end of April. I contacted him a few days ago and he said he can’t send the money until the end of the week. From that time onwards he did not reply to my other texts, my phone calls and my messages on skype. I have yet to receive the £525 he agreed to pay back.

I'm referring to this. Why would you promise to return 50% of the money if you thought everything was done as agreed on the staking deal?

I wouldn't be asking you these questions if you hadn't broken the deal and if you had updated us as regularly as was agreed.

I think it warrants a return of the money if the staked person breaks the agreement.

Edit: Fixed a grammatic error.

I think all the parties involved want the situation to be resolved. I think it is important, as previously stated by Gary, that only the people involved join the discussion.
Any other comments really do not help in resolving the issue.

Thank you for your understanding,

Thazar

Originally posted by Spungeh

Mindan and I, personally believed that I could beat higher limits online, (Which we both still believe) but things just didn't go my way, and although people like TT, mindan etc have all said I have potential, I still have allot to learn.

Originally posted by TwiceT

I also coached him 2 times in poker and I think he has potential as a player, but ofc there is a lot to improve on.

The technical game is one thing. However, as I underlined so often here on PS over the last years, in so many of my coachings as well as in the mindset section of our book: A good technical game is the foundation, but you ultimately make money due to:
- peak performance
- mindset
- work ethics

Outworking > any talent and/or technical skill.

In staking principles like integrity, honestly, correctness etc are fundamental. Given that this thread is about staking specifically, I would like to have my entire post quoted, not parts of it. I hope that you clean up the mess asap and carefully listen to what many of the community members are saying.

Just a surgestion.

If the stakers are requiring hand histories or are disputing hand histories and the player says that he has already given it or is unable to give it:

why does the player not give access to the relevant online accounts to a trustworthy third party?

Originally posted by mineriva
Just a surgestion.

If the stakers are requiring hand histories or are disputing hand histories and the player says that he has already given it or is unable to give it:

why does the player not give access to the relevant online accounts to a trustworthy third party?

Spungeh already sent the stars hand histories and he's working on the ipoker ones (screenshots on previous page). So thats not an issue anymore as far as I'm aware.

edit: spelling mistake

Originally posted by Spungeh
This was never the case, I only ever played as high as NL200, I played bigger live games, but online NL200 was max...

Now I see that. At first I thought it was implied you played 500NL zoom while being on stake for 100&200 because of screenshot SF posted but it dates back before the stake. Sorry for misunderstanding.

Originally posted by Spungeh
This was never the case, I only ever played as high as NL200, I played bigger live games, but online NL200 was max...

really? would you then bother to explain the big spikes early on in the graph? one that shoots up to about $500 and then down to about -$900.

Originally posted by mindan
I went through it, compared to the data Damian sent me before and found some things that don't match.

1.0 Overall graph for the staking period, played on PokerStars:

1.1 Overall graph for the staking period Damian sent me:

Does anyone notice that:

-graphs 1.0 and 1.1 are very similar but the difference is that some hands are missing, which implies that the 1.1 graph is faked and shows the bad plays as running bad

-damian played nl1k DURING the stake period

Originally posted by supeyrio

Originally posted by Spungeh
This was never the case, I only ever played as high as NL200, I played bigger live games, but online NL200 was max...

Spoiler

really? would you then bother to explain the big spikes early on in the graph? one that shoots up to about $500 and then down to about -$900.

Those spikes kinda look like bad data tbh - its wierd that there is no spikiness of a remotely similar level around there - unless he only played for like 10 hands at nl600 and was involved in 2 all ins and one big pot without showdown (look at the drop in redline), in that time frame it doesn't make much sense.

I also had some huge unexplained spikes like this in my HM2 graphs a while ago, which is why I mention it.

I think things are quite simple at this point. It is clear that Damian broke the agreements in all the stakes he had. He did so in different ways: providing wrong data in his reports (thus misleading the staker to send him top-ups), playing higher and lower limits than what the stake deal was for (*print screen of that below), being unresponsible, unprofessional, using the trust that stakers had in him...

Our task in this thread is to find out (using 100% reliable data) how much does Damian owe to each of the stakers and then make a plan of how will he pay his debt.

There is no need to get emotions in our way, making this thread way too long for no reason. Think of it as a public investigation, meant to solve previous inaccurate behaviour.
I agree with all of you (pleno1 nailed it IMO) who said that we can't change what happened but we can all learn from the experience and help each other, solving the situation: exposing the truth, getting money back, saving the reputation of Damian in the poker community, allowing him to clean the mess/repair the damage he did and still have a future in poker.

Having said that, out of the data asked, I have received:

-PokerStars hand history
-Skrill transaction history

In regard to –iPoker transaction history, from the picture Damian posted, it can't be seen what deposit method was used.
In regard to –iPoker hand history, you can ask them to send in chunks. You only played there for a month or so, there can't be a huge amount of hands, making files to big to send.
So we are still waiting for:

- PokerStars transaction history
- Bank statement with all related transaction history
- Credit card transaction history
- iPoker hand history

Given the data Damian sent so far, he owes me 21205 EUR – 4555 USD (lost playing online at PokerStars) – 2165 GBP (shown to be lost playing live) – 500 USD (returned sum from coaching).
Converted in EUR, that is 21205 – 3542 – 2567 – 389 = 14707 EUR

During the stake he also received RB which is unaccounted for in the graphs but still lowers the actual losses. I believe the fair approach is to return that to the staker as well.

*print screen showing stakes played out of agreement:

the losses en the absolute lowest stakes look like tilt to me, that said, all losses in these stakes look like they're just spew

Originally posted by Riverdiver
the losses en the absolute lowest stakes look like tilt to me, that said, all losses in these stakes look like they're just spew

Was thinking exactly this ^^

Ok first I read this topic. For things not making to complicate. I will let handlle maritsula and pulcipet in my way. I hope we can solve this problem.

FINAL REPORT ON LIVE CASH STAKE WITH DAMIAN COPELAND


I have received Mindan’s skype chat logs and after reading them I can finally write a report of what actually happened in the live cash stake until the end of march. For those who don’t want to go through the report this is the short version.

Damian applied for a stake on pokerstrategy.com for £3000 on the 9th of January. stake On the 10th of January stakers were Maritsula 30% (£900), Liessens 25% (£750) , Petteri for 10% (£300) and Spungeh the rest 35% (£1050). 35%

On the 31st of Jan Damian sold his 35% to Mindan for £2000 instead of £1050. He informed us in our skype stakers group that he found a guy to buy his 35% but he didn’t add him on the stakers group neither update the thread on PS.

On the 6th of March he informs Mindan (in private as he wasn’t on the skype group) that profits were at £5300 and that he could buy the rest of the action for himself. Mindan buys the other 65% for £2000 and on the 27th of March after Mindan met Damian in Birmingham he adds 5300 euros more to the stake.

On the 28th of March he informs the skype stakers group (Maritsula-Liessens-Petteri) that the stake was lost and that there was never a 4th staker ( ie Mindan) involved.

Full Summary:

On the 9th of January Damian applied for a stake in PS.com. stake On the 10th of January the stakers were : Maritsula 30% (£900), Liessens 25% (£750) , Petteri for 10% (£300) and Spungeh 35% (1050) 35%. Total Stake was for £3000. We had a skype group for the stake, (Maritsula-Liessens-Petteri-Damian)

On the 29th of January, Damian asked in the skype group if someone could buy his 35% . On the 2nd February he told us in the skype group that he sold his 35% to another guy. He did not add him this 4th staker on the skype group, neither did he update his stake thread on PS.com. After the stake ended he said there was not a 4th staker after all. proof.

In reality after talking with Mindan and reading his skype chat logs with Damian I found out that on the 31st January, he had sold his 35% part to Mindan for £2000 instead of £1050.

On the 15th of February he asked Mindan (private chat between them, Mindan was never added to the stakers group on skype) if he wanted to buy in for £2000 more in the stake. Mindan refused.

On the 20th of February he said in the skype group that we are up £585 total. On the 23th of February he says he got a massive hit, doesn’t specify and on the 5th of March he said he is alive with Bankroll. updates

On the 6th of March (private chat between them) he informs Mindan that his live stake is open again and that he could buy the rest of the action for £3000.

[6.3.2013 18:33:06 | Edited 18:34:26] Damian: 2. Live stake is open if you want to do an arrangement to buy the rest up..

You have 35% already? I think itll be £3000~ and ill give you another 35% for it for the first 10,000 hands... then we go 50/50.

Mindan replies that he would prefer to wait until he sees results to buy more.

[6.3.2013 18:36:35] mindan: 2. --> I don't know what you mean but for now, I'd prefer to wait until we show some solid results in both online and live stakes. So staying at 35%

Damian then informs Mindan that the total profit of the stake is at £5300.

[6.3.2013 18:57:51] Damian: they are in 2 different apps, so will merge them together myself,
Total Profit = £5300 (£300~ On travel)
£/hour = £44
Hours = 150
Cashed = 85%
Other useless stats they tell you..
I have never lost on a sunday,wednesday,friday, i have only ever lost on tuesdays and saturdays... and ive not had a losing month..
biggest winning session = £1,800
biggest losing session = £1,200
AVG Session = +£250 after rake/travel/food

Mindan agrees to buy the rest of the action but when he asked Damian why is it £3000 more this is what Damian replied. He claimed he sold us ( the other stakers who had 65%) on a 2;1 mark-up. This does not make any sense at all.

[6.3.2013 20:14:40] Damian: oh the reason was
[6.3.2013 20:14:43] Damian: because the other 65%
[6.3.2013 20:14:45] Damian: was sold on markup
[6.3.2013 20:14:47] Damian: to the others
[6.3.2013 20:15:37] Damian: at 2:1
[6.3.2013 20:15:46] Damian: so 35% to them was £4,000 [6.3.2013 20:15:53] Damian: and obv selling of..
[6.3.2013 20:16:01] Damian: 70% to you
[6.3.2013 20:16:05] Damian: at the exact value [6.3.2013 20:16:50] Damian: but as you bought last 35% for £2k, we can do the same again, just means 5less BIs

When Mindan asked Damian if it was necessary for him to send the £2000, as it could be covered from his 35% share on the £5300 winnings of the stake Damian replied this

[6.3.2013 20:17:35] mindan: right. Do I even have to send you or can you play from the winnings so far?
[6.3.2013 20:17:53] mindan: and in case of busto, I add the 2k or more
[6.3.2013 20:19:22] Damian: i dont have all those winnings, from ending stakings.. so id need the 10BI to have the roll again.

Everything was a lie as:
1. We didn’t back out from the stake
2. We never bought action at a 2;1 mark-up
3. We did not receive any % from the £5300 profits

On the 18th Of March Damian makes a summary for the stake so far after our constant demands for a proper update. He informed us that the stake was -£2500end of stake

Note that the only information we had in the skype stakers group was on 20th Feb that we were up £585, then a few days later when he told us he took a massive hit and on the 5th of March he told us he was alive with bankroll. While on the 6th of March when he told Mindan that he could buy the rest of the action he told him that the profits of the stake so far were £5300!

On the 21th of March Damian meets Mindan in Birmingham and they agree to increase the stake to 50 buy-ins. On the 27th of March Mindan send Damian 5300 euros.

And on the 28th of March he tolds us he has just more than a buy-in left. He offered us a “return policy”, meaning he would pay us back a % of our investment and he ended the stake. He even said this “So i think imma just take a gamble with my own money. which i didnt want todo because of rent/bills etc. but it may be easier for me.”

In my case, we agreed for him to repay me £525 in two weeks time. I didn’t receive anything so far.

Conclusion

I have spent countless hours on this issue but I am satisfied that I managed to found out the FACTS. Now, there isn’t a point in discussing anything about what actually happened in the stake that was posted on ps.com with Damian as its all here, documented. Facts are facts, they can’t be changed.

Now we are waiting Damian Copeland to agree to a repayment plan to the:
£300 owed to Petteri, £750 owed to Liessens, £900 owed to Maritsula and £4000 + €5300 owed to Mindan.

When mindan bought up the remaining 35% of the stake, it was at a markup of 2:1, because all of your % were going down, I specified in skype chats whenever someone bought up action.

[02/02/2013 00:36:33] Damian: got a guy to buy the rest.. (y) so we're back in business.
[02/02/2013 04:30:10] ?: thats great
[02/02/2013 04:30:43] ?: so now what are the actual % of profits for each backer?
[03/02/2013 16:40:11] Damian: .5% per 1% you have..

due to it being at markup, for mindan to get 35%, it would technically be 17.5% x 2 = £2100, ( so I actually sold it to him at a smaller rate than what it should of been at)

In regards to the 'total profit of the stake' this was the total time in which I had played the casino game, before the stake even started, the actual 'stake' was at a lose, an absolute complete 0, but profit from the games were still + due to previous results.

The only reason why I got a stake, was so that I could use the money I made previously to live of so that I didn't need to have 'life tilt' from money.

The reason, that I did not have all those winnings in order to play with, is because there were my life funds, and therefore wasn't going into them, If I was willing todo that, then I would of played with my own money in the first place, and I actually let mindan of the extra £1000 even though I added more into the stake at a previous date.

The initial stake amount with everyone involved was no longer active, even marti when i met him in nottingham dropped £1k in the 1/1 game there, and don't think its truly impossible to believe that a 10bi staking deal went busto.

at the 'everything was a lie'

1. No you didn't but the stake was ended, therefore you were no longer in it, maybe the wrong wording, but regardless the same result.

2. You never bought action at 2:1, but I said in skype everytime it got updated, and you all agree'd to this

3. There wasn't any £5300 profits from the stake

In general the casino games in which I play are super soft, and easily beatable by most people, but when festivals, poker events or other special circumstances, or random nights/specific gamblers, the 1/2 games become deep stacked and are very high variance, there is a joke about "if you run good in those games, you can retire" obviously I ran bad in these games in the end of feb, and did what I could to try and keep the stake alive.

Things left todo

1. Get my bank stuff in order to confirm some of the information that I have given (this will only be done in private)

2. I think that we need to set up a skype group/chat with a specific time with everyone financially involved.

3. Agree on live figures and setup a payment plan (from the data ive given, my understanding I owe £0 from any live deals

4. Agree on online figures and setup a payment plan (from the data ive given, my understaind I owe x£ from any online deals (all mindan)

5. Give a report of what we discussed/done into this thread, to keep people uptodate.

I will add people into the group on skype now.

As I said in skype to Damian a few hours ago facts are facts, they cant be unchanged.

Originally posted by Spungeh
When mindan bought up the remaining 35% of the stake, it was at a markup of 2:1, because all of your % were going down, I specified in skype chats whenever someone bought up action.

This is what he told us in the skype stakers group where he didnt add Mindan.

This is what he told me on the 31st of March in our private talk

When Mindan name came up by complete accident he did not even mention that he was the 4th staker that bought the 35%. Note that 3 days earlier Damian sold the rest of the stake to Mindan while we were still staking him.

These are from our talk on 16th May after i found out that he broke the rules of our stake by selling fake % to Mindan etc

I could comment on everything else and ask you a million questions you can't answer but I think this covers it. I just proven you committed fraud.

Unless somehow you disagree, we will start discussing repayment plans with you