50euro T9o

you said it yourself, your floating OOP vs an oponent who will barrel a ton.
its really bad. especially on A high boards since if he´s competent he knows you´re capped.

as played yh easy bluff river, he shouldnt have Ax+ and all the draws from your perceived range got theire

just on a psycological level, i really hate when people argue that a play is good because the oponent should know something since he´s good.

like here " if i c/c it should be prettyobvious to him that i have Jx". cos when for whatever reason he checks back turn and calls river you call him a donk, instead of realizing you are the donkey for making a bad play.

cos you have evidence that e barrels a lot, but instead do something cos you think he should do diferent

he barrels a ton, you should have a slightly tighter calling range on the flop to stand against his barreling. you should c/c flop c/shove turn with strong draws and be more apt to slowplay.

you shouldnt call light or float

Thanks again!

I didn't argue, I wouldn't post it here if I was sure it's a good play

What do you mean by c/c-c/sh turn with strong draws? Say we have Jh7h on 8h4h2s and we don't raise straight away, but rather call flop and c/sh Turn as we expect him to barrel many turns and this way we steal an extra bet?

And as for be more inclined to slow play-I guess u would just flat 8Jo(4h8h2s) here on the flop and call down T/R on dangerous Run out as we expect him to barrel often and this way we gain more value than just c/r straight away?

Originally posted by kurrkabin
Thanks again!

I didn't argue, I wouldn't post it here if I was sure it's a good play

What do you mean by c/c-c/sh turn with strong draws? Say we have Jh7h on 8h4h2s and we don't raise straight away, but rather call flop and c/sh Turn as we expect him to barrel many turns and this way we steal an extra bet?

And as for be more inclined to slow play-I guess u would just flat 8Jo(4h8h2s) here on the flop and call down T/R on dangerous Run out as we expect him to barrel often and this way we gain more value than just c/r straight away?

yh the flushdraw example is exactly what i meant.

the second example not so good since J8 is pretty vulnerable.

but lets say K82r with KT for example

plus on the K82r against a high barreling frequency if we have a 2 its very unlikely we get to showdown so actually c/c flop is kinda bad. so im more likely to turn the hand in to a bluff

Great points brought up here however:

On K82r even if it's hard to reach sd with 2x, I think c/c c/f generally is a superior line to c/r flop. It just reps so little and anyone semi-competent is going to play back too often.

Thoughts?

Originally posted by chenny8888
Great points brought up here however:

On K82r even if it's hard to reach sd with 2x, I think c/c c/f generally is a superior line to c/r flop. It just reps so little and anyone semi-competent is going to play back too often.

Thoughts?

c/c c/f is gonna be really bad against high barreling frequency. your just making his ev higher

c/r is really cool because it doesn´t need to work often since we have equity to two pair or trips so lets say he cbets 40 on an 80 pot and we make it 90 .

in a vacuum needs to work about 42%. with the equity it needs to work less. so you really only need him to fold his air to be plus ev. and people cbet very high frwquency in general.

again a decent oponnent might notice or he might not. but if turning the hand in to a bluff isnt profitable i either c/c flop and hold on to the hand or c/f right away which would really be sick. basically if i cant play bottom pair easily OOP i shouldnt play that person in general.

And on a more draw heavy board, do you still c/r 2nd pair against an aggro opponent? Let´s say you have K5 on a 653 board, do you still c/r?

Originally posted by moreanes1
And on a more draw heavy board, do you still c/r 2nd pair against an aggro opponent? Let´s say you have K5 on a 653 board, do you still c/r?

i was talking about bottom pairs, cos its really hard to call turn

second pair usually we get to the river easily, so no need to turn in to a bluff

Sorry, my bad. But the question is still the same, do you still c/r bottom pairs on draw heavy boards? Like K3 on 653 board? I usually fold in those spots vs agressive villains because I know they will barrel turn.

Originally posted by moreanes1
Sorry, my bad. But the question is still the same, do you still c/r bottom pairs on draw heavy boards? Like K3 on 653 board? I usually fold in those spots vs agressive villains because I know they will barrel turn.

i consider it for sure. more important the the board really is the villain and if he folds to check raises

If it's drawheavy it's pretty reasonable to c/r something like K5 on 653 for pure value and call a shove vs his air + draw combos.

As for A2 on K82, I think it's quite reasonable to c/c flop c/f turn unimproved, if you're planning on c/c 3 streets with a lot of your middle pairs. I know in a vacuum this hand loses, but if he tries to exploit with high turn/river barrelling then the 10% of the time you improve on the turn + the times you just have KT or something like you said, more than makes up for it..