QQ22ds - not sure about turn play

Hi,

i think you played it fine, altough i doubt a nonnut flush calls the flop only to fold the turn very often.

regards,

Skod

Thanks for the response, well discussed the hand with some other players and they thought that the shove on the turn only isolates me against a range I'm currently behind. They mentioned it might perhaps be better to check turn to give villain the chance to bluff here and get value from weaker hands (two pair, smaller sets,...)...

What do you think about that?

The only reason for shove is that you got FE against straights/OESD. If he calls with a flush it's not the end of the world as you have like 24% equity and you need 32% to breakeven.

I haven't played fullring, but is that limp a good play? In 6max that would be bad, and I assume the same applies in 8 handed.

Originally posted by Kyyberi
I haven't played fullring, but is that limp a good play? In 6max that would be bad, and I assume the same applies in 8 handed.

Well I prefer limping because I believe my skills postflop are way better so I can outplay. I have to say I also like to see a lot of flops ^^

Originally posted by RaucheCh1987
This is why this is a much superior play and will work more times then it fails and we are looking for optimum plays, not necessarily plays that are results orientated.

The times opponent folds doesn't have anything to do with how good your play is. The question is "does this line give more profit than something else?". Every time opponent folds something else than flush or straight, you missed value. Against OESD bet is better than checking. And I agree on the fact that if he called flop with a flush draw, he isn't ever folding it on the turn.

Against flushes the money goes in ott with both shove and check.
Against straights you have decent FE and decent equity. Shove has more EV than checking.
Against bare JT you have almost 100% FE and he folds 19% equity.
Against smaller sets it's hard to get value unless the board pairs otr.

When he check-calls the flop I don't think he ever has a weak draw or weak made hand. He either has a flush draw or a wrap. So against that range I prefer shove ott.

You said that if you c-raise the flop, what do you do on the turn if scary card comes. That question is irrelevant as you can c-raise your stack in on the flop (might leave few bucks behind but you are committed anyway).

Thanks for the detailed response.

Replied

My concern was this:
Hero's donking range on this flop is very often (if not allways) either a set or really big draw. When Hero limps pre-flop behind, i would assume that Hero is not doing that with such a strong hands like AsJsTx/AsQ9*s. So i would estimate Hero's range really heavily towards sets. When there's still one player to act on the flop, imo RASN_Player just can't call with plain oesd. So i would assume that he have very often either a wrap or at least nutFD here. If i were this villain, because of that pre-flop play i wouldn't fold even my straight here. Ofc it's possible that Hero could have FD with set on the flop (and now flush) but i would think that there are no reason for him to shove it because there are like 0 cards for him to scare.