Bring back the Hand Judging Service!

Btw there could still be a way for the hand history boards to work.

Let's say each coach gets paid $1/hand he comments on (this is speculation, I've never been paid for commenting on hands etc) and you post 50 hands a month. Why not keep the service and use a tokens system. This way if you want to get 10 hands evaluated a month you buy 10 tokens. PokerStrategy don't lose any money because the coaches get paid directly, the players become better and the coaches still get paid. Coaches could even choose how much they charge/thread and you could choose which coaches token you bougt. They would be motivated to make posts as good as possible so people choose them over other coaches. Anybody could be s coach! It would be a free market and this would all be on PokerStrategy that would be driving great traffic here. You may even get really good coaches from other sites coming here and lerhals wanting to make videos for cheap to advertise themselves.

Let's not complain and say how shit everything is, people want their hands evaluated by qualified coaches. PokerStrategy doesn't think this is a profitable thing for them to do. I'm sure they've not just randomly decided and have actually don't skme research into this) it works for both parties.

Out of good will PokerStrategy could perhaps do promotions and raffles where they give away free tokens etc.

A lot of the threads weren't great anyway they would be something like.

Hi,

Fold flop, he has a strong range this is not profitable

Instead we would have much better responses, much better discussions and much better boards in general.

Some people feel rude coming into somebody else's thread and bothering a coach again, now they have the option of reopening a thread and asking a question, this way they won't be bad as they would be using a token to do so.

It's probably better to pay 20$ and get 20 amazing responses than pay nothing and get 20 meh responses. I'm pretty sure you will make back your 20$ in equity At the tables.

Anybody like this idea?

Nice reply Patrick.

I do agree with you, it is time to rise above now for sure. I do have my reasons, justifiable or not and I'm not going to share them but I do believe if you knew you'd probably be more inclined to see where I am coming from. Not that it makes things any better. I should be able to bite my lip and move on. Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't. You know very well how passionate I was about this place - the work I put in, the endless hours, the late nights, the early mornings etc. We kept a very high standard, those standards are not the same anymore though and it is irritating to see such a dramatic demise (again, my opinion - to which you probably disagree)

The waiting period is a matter of perspective though - I was unhappy with the service. You were happy with the response times - fair enough. Aside from that nothing I've spoke about ITT was anti anything! Yes, there have been posts and comments in the past that were - this one though was not. I'm sorry if you took it personally as it wasn't a dig at you/anyone - just merely an opinion to which I am entitled to have.

Anyways, to that end I am moving on now from this thread and I will do my best to keep the vibe a little less negative in the future, just for you!

Bon chance mon frère!

Originally posted by Ramble

Originally posted by Anomic
It's better to get one comment from someone who knows what he's doing than 5 comments from randoms imo, we'll see how it goes. (inb4 half the playerbase going broke because of making too many mistakes.)

Imagine a classroom full of math students who suddenly get told they have to correct eachothers exercises. The teacher will pick one of the hundreds of excercises every week to talk about and ignore the rest. Does it sound like a good idea?

If anything it should have been encouraged to get hands evaluated because: people improving -> people moving up limits -> people raking more -> pokerstrategy getting more profit.

This has long been my view. The players and PokerStrategy.com are business partners, and the success of each should be mutually beneficial. The professional hand judging service is one tool that can help players significantly improve and in the long-term benefit PokerStrategy.com. On the surface, it doesn't seem to make sense to limit a tool that would help your business partner make money for you. On the other hand, it doesn't make sense to spend money in an area that is not providing a satisfactory benefit when it could be spent in another area to more effect.

I don't think any reasonable person could argue against the incredible value that the professional hand judging offers. Anyone who has paid for coaching knows that it is a bargain. By the same token, quality coaches aren't cheap and likely represent a significant cost - albeit one that is shared among a large membership pool.

Unfortunately, without the numbers being available, it is hard for anyone (including me) to make a credible argument about what the best course of action is. I think a large part of the frustration comes from the change being made without consulting with the members to see why they are not using the service in the first place (other than the measures introduced some time ago to limit its use), or how it could be improved so more members would use it in a cost-effective way.

Couldn't have said it in better words. Very true.

Originally posted by pleno1
Btw there could still be a way for the hand history boards to work.

Let's say each coach gets paid $1/hand he comments on (this is speculation, I've never been paid for commenting on hands etc) and you post 50 hands a month. Why not keep the service and use a tokens system. This way if you want to get 10 hands evaluated a month you buy 10 tokens. PokerStrategy don't lose any money because the coaches get paid directly, the players become better and the coaches still get paid. Coaches could even choose how much they charge/thread and you could choose which coaches token you bougt. They would be motivated to make posts as good as possible so people choose them over other coaches. Anybody could be s coach! It would be a free market and this would all be on PokerStrategy that would be driving great traffic here. You may even get really good coaches from other sites coming here and lerhals wanting to make videos for cheap to advertise themselves.

Let's not complain and say how shit everything is, people want their hands evaluated by qualified coaches. PokerStrategy doesn't think this is a profitable thing for them to do. I'm sure they've not just randomly decided and have actually don't skme research into this) it works for both parties.

Out of good will PokerStrategy could perhaps do promotions and raffles where they give away free tokens etc.

A lot of the threads weren't great anyway they would be something like.

Hi,

Fold flop, he has a strong range this is not profitable

Instead we would have much better responses, much better discussions and much better boards in general.

Some people feel rude coming into somebody else's thread and bothering a coach again, now they have the option of reopening a thread and asking a question, this way they won't be bad as they would be using a token to do so.

It's probably better to pay 20$ and get 20 amazing responses than pay nothing and get 20 meh responses. I'm pretty sure you will make back your 20$ in equity At the tables.

Anybody like this idea?

I'd like it more than what it is now, sure.
Would love a way to earn tokens without paying direct cash tho.
You know like with SP and such.

Originally posted by UPAY4DINNER
Nice reply Patrick.

I do agree with you, it is time to rise above now for sure. I do have my reasons, justifiable or not and I'm not going to share them but I do believe if you knew you'd probably be more inclined to see where I am coming from. Not that it makes things any better. I should be able to bite my lip and move on. Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't. You know very well how passionate I was about this place - the work I put in, the endless hours, the late nights, the early mornings etc. We kept a very high standard, those standards are not the same anymore though and it is irritating to see such a dramatic demise (again, my opinion - to which you probably disagree)

The waiting period is a matter of perspective though - I was unhappy with the service. You were happy with the response times - fair enough. Aside from that nothing I've spoke about ITT was anti anything! Yes, there have been posts and comments in the past that were - this one though was not. I'm sorry if you took it personally as it wasn't a dig at you/anyone - just merely an opinion to which I am entitled to have.

Anyways, to that end I am moving on now from this thread and I will do my best to keep the vibe a little less negative in the future, just for you!

Bon chance mon frère!

Good luck for that!

Originally posted by pleno1
Btw there could still be a way for the hand history boards to work.

Let's say each coach gets paid $1/hand he comments on (this is speculation, I've never been paid for commenting on hands etc) and you post 50 hands a month. Why not keep the service and use a tokens system. This way if you want to get 10 hands evaluated a month you buy 10 tokens. PokerStrategy don't lose any money because the coaches get paid directly, the players become better and the coaches still get paid. Coaches could even choose how much they charge/thread and you could choose which coaches token you bougt. They would be motivated to make posts as good as possible so people choose them over other coaches. Anybody could be s coach! It would be a free market and this would all be on PokerStrategy that would be driving great traffic here. You may even get really good coaches from other sites coming here and lerhals wanting to make videos for cheap to advertise themselves.

Let's not complain and say how shit everything is, people want their hands evaluated by qualified coaches. PokerStrategy doesn't think this is a profitable thing for them to do. I'm sure they've not just randomly decided and have actually don't skme research into this) it works for both parties.

Out of good will PokerStrategy could perhaps do promotions and raffles where they give away free tokens etc.

A lot of the threads weren't great anyway they would be something like.

Hi,

Fold flop, he has a strong range this is not profitable

Instead we would have much better responses, much better discussions and much better boards in general.

Some people feel rude coming into somebody else's thread and bothering a coach again, now they have the option of reopening a thread and asking a question, this way they won't be bad as they would be using a token to do so.

It's probably better to pay 20$ and get 20 amazing responses than pay nothing and get 20 meh responses. I'm pretty sure you will make back your 20$ in equity At the tables.

Anybody like this idea?

I think in essence this is a strong idea though of course it would need some fine tuning.
Not as convinced by the 'open market' idea though as it would quickly become a microcosm of poker coaching in general; be massively over saturated to the point where it is very challenging to ascertain which coaches are of suitable value. Of course, you would have a feedback/ ratings system or the like but on-the-whole I think some vetoing of the coaches by the host (ps.com) would be required.
Great idea though and sounds sustainable at minimal $ upkeep.

I don't know how much money pokerstrategy gets if a diamond member rakes like 1000$ a month, but I think it's probably enough to pay someone skilled to judge hands... I've personally raked 732$ this month which got me 5000SP.

Remember if there is 100% of rake.

There is the player - 50%
The poker room - 20%
The network - 20%
Fees/costs - 20%
The affiliate - 20%

Then the affiliate runs a rake race, then the site runs a rake race then the network runs a rake race. I think just everybody makes a lot less than we would all imagine.

Having read through all the posts about this contentious issue, I think it's a bit disappointing that the evaluation threads will go, but in all honesty, it seems a bit absurd to complain about something being removed which you didn't personally make use of (and I am guilty of this too, btw, as I only just started to post some hds there,despite being a long-term member) and there is at least one other forum where you can get hands analysed by a top pro, albeit with a monthly fee for membership, if that's what you really want - and the idea of status upgrades for active/quality posters is something I was thinking of suggesting for a while now, so hopefully it will work well, and allow some people who don't have tracked stars/ft accts to access better training materials (ie vids) which they otherwise wouldn't have been able to watch.

I will always be grateful to poker strategy for giving me my start in this game I love so much, and we can still have good quality discussions of hands/strategies etc. if we the members take some responsibility and actively contribute (again, something I am guilty of not doing myself)

ps. don't wish to take this ot again, but i will just say this - to Gary - It's not just pleno btw, I also have been a bit dismayed at some of your comments, in particular the 'sir/lord' references, to individuals, including myself, and especially making snide comments about peoples' BRs ("mbn") - ffs man - come on - really!? I'm sure you're a nice guy and all, and have done some good work for the site, and been hard done to etc. but some of your comments come across really badly mate, and def do give off a bad vibe, so please, take your own advice and try to move on eh?

Originally posted by pleno1
Btw there could still be a way for the hand history boards to work.

Let's say each coach gets paid $1/hand he comments on (this is speculation, I've never been paid for commenting on hands etc) and you post 50 hands a month. Why not keep the service and use a tokens system. This way if you want to get 10 hands evaluated a month you buy 10 tokens. PokerStrategy don't lose any money because the coaches get paid directly, the players become better and the coaches still get paid. Coaches could even choose how much they charge/thread and you could choose which coaches token you bougt. They would be motivated to make posts as good as possible so people choose them over other coaches. Anybody could be s coach! It would be a free market and this would all be on PokerStrategy that would be driving great traffic here. You may even get really good coaches from other sites coming here and lerhals wanting to make videos for cheap to advertise themselves.

Let's not complain and say how shit everything is, people want their hands evaluated by qualified coaches. PokerStrategy doesn't think this is a profitable thing for them to do. I'm sure they've not just randomly decided and have actually don't skme research into this) it works for both parties.

Out of good will PokerStrategy could perhaps do promotions and raffles where they give away free tokens etc.

A lot of the threads weren't great anyway they would be something like.

Hi,

Fold flop, he has a strong range this is not profitable

Instead we would have much better responses, much better discussions and much better boards in general.

Some people feel rude coming into somebody else's thread and bothering a coach again, now they have the option of reopening a thread and asking a question, this way they won't be bad as they would be using a token to do so.

It's probably better to pay 20$ and get 20 amazing responses than pay nothing and get 20 meh responses. I'm pretty sure you will make back your 20$ in equity At the tables.

Anybody like this idea?

I had a similar idea, but it was based on spending your "virtual" strategy points. The idea being that those who earn more strategy points (i.e. rake for PokerStrategy.com), get more access to the hand-judging services. It would encourage people to try to get more points, restrict the cost of the service to those who are paying for it through generated rake to PokerStrategy, and would be proportional. In other words - encourage a mutually beneficial partnership.

I think limiting HH's to a very small number/month and encouraging people to participate in others HH threads would have been a better solution.

Originally posted by Ramble

Originally posted by pleno1
Btw there could still be a way for the hand history boards to work.

Let's say each coach gets paid $1/hand he comments on (this is speculation, I've never been paid for commenting on hands etc) and you post 50 hands a month. Why not keep the service and use a tokens system. This way if you want to get 10 hands evaluated a month you buy 10 tokens. PokerStrategy don't lose any money because the coaches get paid directly, the players become better and the coaches still get paid. Coaches could even choose how much they charge/thread and you could choose which coaches token you bougt. They would be motivated to make posts as good as possible so people choose them over other coaches. Anybody could be s coach! It would be a free market and this would all be on PokerStrategy that would be driving great traffic here. You may even get really good coaches from other sites coming here and lerhals wanting to make videos for cheap to advertise themselves.

Let's not complain and say how shit everything is, people want their hands evaluated by qualified coaches. PokerStrategy doesn't think this is a profitable thing for them to do. I'm sure they've not just randomly decided and have actually don't skme research into this) it works for both parties.

Out of good will PokerStrategy could perhaps do promotions and raffles where they give away free tokens etc.

A lot of the threads weren't great anyway they would be something like.

Hi,

Fold flop, he has a strong range this is not profitable

Instead we would have much better responses, much better discussions and much better boards in general.

Some people feel rude coming into somebody else's thread and bothering a coach again, now they have the option of reopening a thread and asking a question, this way they won't be bad as they would be using a token to do so.

It's probably better to pay 20$ and get 20 amazing responses than pay nothing and get 20 meh responses. I'm pretty sure you will make back your 20$ in equity At the tables.

Anybody like this idea?

I had a similar idea, but it was based on spending your "virtual" strategy points. The idea being that those who earn more strategy points (i.e. rake for PokerStrategy.com), get more access to the hand-judging services. It would encourage people to try to get more points, restrict the cost of the service to those who are paying for it through generated rake to PokerStrategy, and would be proportional. In other words - encourage a mutually beneficial partnership.

I really like this idea!
Nothing to say about it really

Originally posted by Ramble

Originally posted by Anomic
It's better to get one comment from someone who knows what he's doing than 5 comments from randoms imo, we'll see how it goes. (inb4 half the playerbase going broke because of making too many mistakes.)

Imagine a classroom full of math students who suddenly get told they have to correct eachothers exercises. The teacher will pick one of the hundreds of excercises every week to talk about and ignore the rest. Does it sound like a good idea?

If anything it should have been encouraged to get hands evaluated because: people improving -> people moving up limits -> people raking more -> pokerstrategy getting more profit.

This has long been my view. The players and PokerStrategy.com are business partners, and the success of each should be mutually beneficial. The professional hand judging service is one tool that can help players significantly improve and in the long-term benefit PokerStrategy.com. On the surface, it doesn't seem to make sense to limit a tool that would help your business partner make money for you. On the other hand, it doesn't make sense to spend money in an area that is not providing a satisfactory benefit when it could be spent in another area to more effect.

I don't think any reasonable person could argue against the incredible value that the professional hand judging offers. Anyone who has paid for coaching knows that it is a bargain. By the same token, quality coaches aren't cheap and likely represent a significant cost - albeit one that is shared among a large membership pool.

Unfortunately, without the numbers being available, it is hard for anyone (including me) to make a credible argument about what the best course of action is. I think a large part of the frustration comes from the change being made without consulting with the members to see why they are not using the service in the first place (other than the measures introduced some time ago to limit its use), or how it could be improved so more members would use it in a cost-effective way.

That maybe the old owners plan but, considering all the changes it is clear the new owners are only intrested in milking on the name pokerstrategy.com has build for itself.

I felt very lost when I didnt find the Hand Judgde Service. I lost like 15 minutes looking for it, I thought that I was crazy lol.

Its pretty sad that this service isnt anymore. It was truly great and one of the better things that Pokerstrategy had.

I think that professional hand evaluation is awesome for the players. It isn't so much profitable for the site and it cutted down, ok.

How about we as players make some small groups and pay professional coaches for a hand evaluations forum?

Hi. I have been a member here for quite a while now. I started out learning short stack strategy back in the day and trying to learn to play correctly. I moved onto big stack strategy n tournament play and started to really get into studying. I remember using the hand judging quite often at one point and was really thankful for it. I didn't care how long it took for a reply so long as I got one. Anyway I stopped playing, sort of lost the fire for a while then I don't know why but in the last week or so the hunger for the game has returned! I'm watching it on tv, reading it and playing it again. I returned here to find hand judging gone and was genuinely gutted! It's knocked my confidence in my ability to learn down a bit nth. I will just have to figure it out in different ways but as a proverbial prodigal returning son, to me the site has lost an, albeit underappreciated, -'jewel in its crown and I am very sad at the decision to just cut the service instead of focusing on how to really push it and make students aware of just how awesome for your game and important and unique this service really was. I'm very sad. Getting involved in posting hands again was going to be a big part of my returning to study. Still love this site though.

Originally posted by tzoun
I think that professional hand evaluation is awesome for the players. It isn't so much profitable for the site and it cutted down, ok.

How about we as players make some small groups and pay professional coaches for a hand evaluations forum?

a good idea

Any words from coaches?
What do people like Bogdan, w34z3l and others think about this?

Personally, I'm a bit lost without that service now

@ AtrociousNightmare: i feel the same as I was just starting to really use the handevaluation a lot before they took it down. Maybe we shoul ask them in the ciachings though to get an answer

Originally posted by sirilidion
@ AtrociousNightmare: i feel the same as I was just starting to really use the handevaluation a lot before they took it down. Maybe we shoul ask them in the ciachings though to get an answer
Feels terrible tho to annoy them "privately" like that tho, especially if you know they are not paid for that.
I just can't seem to find a proper reason to just bring down the service.
Glad I see others, like you, thinking the same. Maybe there's hope! <3

@ AtrociousNightmare: well, they do usely encourage to ask any qeustion about poker in the coaching. So I don't see how you can't ask them about this ^^.