AKo SB 3bet vs BTN - turn spot

On the turn your backdoor FD is not possible.

i would check fold the turn, even if we hit a king or ace on the river it's close to a check fold

I would bet slightly more on the flop and x/f T

Turn is definitely x/f.

Originally posted by mattyvx
i would check fold the turn, even if we hit a king or ace on the river it's close to a check fold

No certainly an Ace or a King is a good card to shove or x/c if you thought you needed defence from bluffs or thin value betting.

You can't argue it both ways. Either he has to fold a lot to make a very good hand that beats AK even if we make an Ace in which case the turn bet is good or the turn bet may be not so good but in which case a rivered Ace or King is very good.

ok think about it like this, we make the ace on the river

start with valuebetting, what hands will he call facing a bet?
ok that sucks, what about check calling, what hands does he bet that we can check call?

As played , it looks like JJ-TT, T9s, 98s...

Originally posted by mattyvx
ok think about it like this, we make the ace on the river

start with valuebetting, what hands will he call facing a bet?
ok that sucks, what about check calling, what hands does he bet that we can check call?

Well like I pointed out, go all in to balance out my river bluffs, and x/c to counter out my opponent's river bluffs. For example Ax of spades comes to mind in my opponent's range where value can be gained in such a fashion. It would be a close spot by itself however since he has many 9s and so on. But those are the reasons for continuing.

I think it's an acceptable play but the main play is probably x/f. A better card on the turn to barrel on that isn't trivial would probably be a Queen, for a number of reasons. That's why with all the spades and the other 3 Queens, along with the Aces or Kings on the turn, I think I have 16 good turn cards.

the answer is too generic for a river betting/check call situation and we are not thinking about villians range and the board texture enough

We have the ace of spades in our hand so that blocks the few bluff combos you mentioned

We make an ace on the river and decide to go all in - do we have 50% vs his calling range?
- Do you expect him to call down 88,JJ-QQ,JTs,KTs? he has all the boats, 44,66,99,TT,T9,A9,98 & straight 78s so never have 50% vs that range to valuebet as it's way to value heavy

We make an ace on the river and decide to check - what hands can he bluff with?
I don't expect him to turn any of the made hands 88,JJ-QQ into bluffs and we block the ace of spades. So when we check and he bets all the above value hands and if we are really optimisic hes bluffing 3 combos of KQss,KJss,QJss into a bluff which a) i don't think most people will and b) that's no where near enough to bluff catch

IMO this is the reason not the bet the turn as when villian continues we have very poor equity, can't valuebet the river and can't check call the river so our outs aren't good. Best is we hit and the river goes check check and we win against JJ

You can argue he raises some value hands OTF / turn but the principal is still there he just cant bluff enough & we cant valuebet

Originally posted by mattyvx

We have the ace of spades in our hand so that blocks the few bluff combos you mentioned

Oh yeah I didn't see that one. oops

maybe a marginal spot if we make an ace or a King on the river. it's still better than rivering a 3 of hearts.

no big deal. worse mistakes have been made

no worries just worth thinking about those questions, what can i value bet against? what can i check call against? As I think its common mistake to bet or check call an ace there. We could consider betting like 20% of the pot or something exploitativey though but meh... still think we are crushed

Anyway the main reason to discuss it is because it influences our turn decision, even if we hit our best out on the river and can't valuebet it and have to check fold it then it probably leads us not to want to bet the turn

You cannot valuebet here. You can x/call vs villain that will bet often vs missed cbet. How about raising him?

Your´re talking here how to play A or K on the river (also believe we don´t have a valuebet here) but I think the most important here is, that we shouldn´t be on the river in situation when we bet twice, right?

I think that is the case. We can bet twice if a higher card to the board hits.

Ok then, I mean on this T card. Agree with beting some high card OTT

On this card we x/f.

O agree that the turn card is not good for barreling. I would check/fold.