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3b-Pot Pocket vs Minraise Flop

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testgfd
Joined: 23.06.2008

Poker Stars, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

Hero (SB): $13.79 (137.9 bb)
BB: $10.70 (107 bb)
UTG: $12.56 (125.6 bb)
MP: $9.92 (99.2 bb)
CO: $5.48 (54.8 bb)
BTN: $16.89 (168.9 bb)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 9 9
UTG folds, MP raises to $0.30, 2 folds, Hero raises to $1, BB folds, MP calls $0.70

Flop: ($2.10) T 6 2 (2 players)
Hero bets $1.20, MP raises to $2.40, Hero calls $1.20

Turn: ($6.90) 9 (2 players)
Hero checks, MP bets $3.30, Hero raises to $10.39, MP calls $3.22 and is all-in

River: ($19.94) 7 (2 players, 1 is all-in)

Hab von Villain erst wenig Hände, scheint aber reggish.
Ausm SB das untere Ende meiner 3b Value Range. Am Flop für mich ne klare Cbet, jedoch das minraise bereitet mir sehr viele Probleme.
Der Sport kommt druchaus öfter vor und ist mMn meistens eher strong als weak.
Meine Intention gegen unknown wäre es direkt am Flop zu folden oder den minraise zu callen und am Turn neu zu entscheiden.
Auf die 9 kann ich natürlich easy shippen, hätte wohl aber auf jedes andere :club: oder :diamond: gefoldet. Je nach Blank nochmal gecallt bzw. auch gefoldet.

Wie sieht euer Plan gegen unkown hier aus?


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14 replies
nitrol
Joined: 24.07.2010

Can you translate all this in English? :)


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testgfd
Joined: 23.06.2008

Oh, wrong Forum
But i translate:
Villain seems to be a Reg.
From the SB, 99's are the bottom of my Value 3b Range. Flop is standard cbet, but the minraise is a difficult spot.
I'm facing this spot often and think its more strong than weak.
My Intention vs unknown would be a fold on the flop or call the minraise and reevaluate on the turn.
With the 9 on the turn, its a easy ship, but i had foldet to any other :club: or :diamond:. Other blanks i would have called or foldet to bad blanks, completing straights.

Whats ur plan vs unknowns?


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Zanardi1
Joined: 04.01.2010

Why did you call the min-raise?


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testgfd
Joined: 23.06.2008

I've called cause he may have some bluffs in his range.
The Value range would be 22, 66, TT+ and the bluff/semibluff range something like J+:diamond:x:diamond:, 78s, 89s and some pure bluffs maybe.


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Zanardi1
Joined: 04.01.2010

So regs on NL10 Stars can bluff-raise in 3bet pot, OOP?


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testgfd
Joined: 23.06.2008

Hes IP?
Im OOP


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Zanardi1
Joined: 04.01.2010

Sorry, IP.


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testgfd
Joined: 23.06.2008

Imo, yes. Thats why i wrote the range above.


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MisterSnS
Joined: 09.11.2011

I can give detailled analysis of the hand, but not sure if I want that. Maybe you should come to the conclusion yourself.

Preflop
Why do you 3bet preflop?
What are the benefits of coldcalling compared to 3betting his openraise?
What are the benefits of 3betting compared to coldcalling his openraise, and what are the merits with this play?

Postflop
How come you conclude that he's raising lots of bluffs in a 3bet Pot on the Flop?
Is there a chance that he's just calling his draws on the flop?
How would you play your range if you were in his shoes?
How high in your range in this spot are the Pocket 99's? And are you still defending enough vs. a minraise if you just fold?


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testgfd
Joined: 23.06.2008

Please consider my bad english
pre
1. Like i said, bottom of my value 3b range
2. imo its not good to cc here
3. As mentioned the alternative for me would be folding pre instead of 3betting. I would never cc. I 3b cause i think 99's running good versus the MP opening range.

post
1. I don't think hes raising all his bluffs neither all his value hands. Posted the range above, what i was thinking about.
2. Don't understand the meaning of this question. Ofc there is a "chance".
3. I would call JJ+, sets and some draws. Raising with some worse semi bluffs.
4. 99's are bottom of my range here. To answer that question i wrote this post ;)


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MisterSnS
Joined: 09.11.2011

I don't understand. Why do you "never" call in the SB?

In my opinion you seem to have a misunderstanding for why you are doing certain things.

You are right when you say that 99's are running good vs. MP's opening range. But are they running that good vs. his callingrange, and can we play it profitably oop in a 3bet pot vs. a somewhat tighter 3bet callingrange? Re-raising here would mean we re-raise for value and try to get more money in after the flop. But the only hands that would pay us off are strong pairs (but even then we have to hit our set first, which happens 12% of the times). It happens more than not that a flop (or turn) with at least one overcard comes and all we can do is to cbet and then give up (or make a somewhat incorrect x/c) when he calls. It makes things so complicated that we always have very tough decisions facing a bet on the turn.

That's why I would rather call pre, keep his range wide and play a smaller pot with a middle pocket pair. Never flatting in the SB is one way to not maximive your EV in the long run. So I'd recommend you implementing a callingrange (unless you can give very good reasons to not do).

Postflop I rarely see Villains bluffraising in 3bet Pots. In these positions your perceived range should be very strong since you are 3betting an MP open and his raising-range. That's why I don't see many bluffs here and calling his raise looks like burning money. He can for sure have every set, and occasionally overpairs that can play this way. Players tend to just call their draws. It's that simple. I wouldn't level myself too much and therefore just muck the flop.

As played it doesn't make any sense to shove vs. some potential draws. I think if you would've won the hand you wouldn't have posted it here right


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testgfd
Joined: 23.06.2008

Imo calling pre in the SB is burning money. As u said, the flop will often show a overcard. Hence u have to play vs Villains complete range, not knowing is he strong or just bluffing you. Unregarded the BB will squeeze sometimes.
Take this Flop as example: we call pre, c/c the flop and already the turn would be a fold or guessing game.

I disagree with:"But are they running that good vs. his callingrange, and can we play it profitably oop in a 3bet pot vs. a somewhat tighter 3bet callingrange?"
I see a lot of trash calling the 3bet atleast. Ranging from 45o to QKo. So in general i would 3b > fold > call the 99's here.

But i agree with the fold on the Flop. My guess was a stronger range on Villains minraise than a weak range.
I'm not shoving the turn vs potential draws, if u mean that? I'm shoving cause so many cards will create no more action.

"I think if you would've won the hand you wouldn't have posted it here right "
Why that? The result doesn't change my problems with this hand. If the 9 hadn't appeared on the turn, i would have c/f and posted the hand too.


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YohanN7
Joined: 15.06.2009

You'll have better bluff catchers than 99, like TX where T < X <= A and flush draws. Even given nice odds, you can fold on flop.


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nitrol
Joined: 24.07.2010

He is following the School of Defending the SB with 3B or Fold.
That is fine, if you know what to do postflop OOP in big pots.

And flop is a fold, man. No need to invest more.


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