loose passive opponent/ 2 tables left/ tilt

I am not a tour player but river bets at the micros usually mean strength. Strength that would take much to conquer

Preflop: Raise it at least to 2.5X. In todays games this sizing work much better, even with a 17x stack. I have checked this with CardRunnersEV. This sizing makes a lot more profit long-term and increases losses for anyone who decides to enter the pot vs you.

As played: Really depends on specific stats. Despite the guy having VPIP of 38% it doesn't really tell much about his postflop tendencies. Because you still get a lot of players who like to see a lot of flops, but play hit or miss postflop. So if he fold to cbet is 50% you can easily cbet the flop with a 50% sizing, as that only needs to work 33% of the time, and OOP people tend to fold more vs cbets.

As played on the turn betting is fine, because it is unlikely that villain has better hand. River I think is an easy fold without much info. In general, tournament players to not tend to turn their hands into a bluff on the river, and a passive opponent is even less likely to do that. In most of my analysis I've done, river donk bets are very strong hands 90% of the time. So if you get bluffed once their, it doesn't matter, because by folding you are reducing your losses long-term, which increases your overall bb/100.

If both the big stacks have been loose passive you could consider just shoving pre, if you make it 2 or even 3BB they will want to see a flop, then you get yourself in tricky spots like this when you never quite know if you're ahead or not.

I'm not saying its a perfect strategy all the time, but something to consider when a small raise pre has 0 fold equity

Originally posted by slippyjim
If both the big stacks have been loose passive you could consider just shoving pre, if you make it 2 or even 3BB they will want to see a flop, then you get yourself in tricky spots like this when you never quite know if you're ahead or not.

I'm not saying its a perfect strategy all the time, but something to consider when a small raise pre has 0 fold equity

If your open has 0% fold equity then shoving makes no sense. I rather see a flop vs 100% range that misses 70% of the time postflop. That makes more profit long-term.

Originally posted by Rihard4a
If your open has 0% fold equity then shoving makes no sense. I rather see a flop vs 100% range that misses 70% of the time postflop. That makes more profit long-term.

This is my thinking
If you shove then you have obviously have more fold equity and can win a small but not insignificant pot with only 17BB
Loose big stacks like to call to see a flop and then call again post flop with any draw or pair, so what happens when I miss post flop? I often up end losing the pot if they show any aggression or hit any random pair

I guess another factor is how often had the BS's been aggressive post flop, or were they just calling stations /folding to aggression?

Originally posted by slippyjim

Originally posted by Rihard4a
If your open has 0% fold equity then shoving makes no sense. I rather see a flop vs 100% range that misses 70% of the time postflop. That makes more profit long-term.

This is my thinking
If you shove then you have obviously have more fold equity and can win a small but not insignificant pot with only 17BB
Loose big stacks like to call to see a flop and then call again post flop with any draw or pair, so what happens when I miss post flop? I often up end losing the pot if they show any aggression or hit any random pair

I guess another factor is how often had the BS's been aggressive post flop, or were they just calling stations /folding to aggression?

If you think that you have 0% fold equity if you raise preflop, then your fold equity when shoving will be the same, and this higher variance route to take. When someone is flatting a lot preflop, we should be aiming to go postflop against them because everyone misses the flop 67% of the time on average. Against shorter stacks people fold even more on the flop.

I think you misunderstood what I meant about the 0 fold equity.
I meant vs a loose big stack I think we have 0 fold equity if we do a small raise like 2-3BB, but I believe we do have fold equity if we shove.
I believe the loose big stacks will always call a small raise but may fold to a shove

Originally posted by slippyjim
I think you misunderstood what I meant about the 0 fold equity.
I meant vs a loose big stack I think we have 0 fold equity if we do a small raise like 2-3BB, but I believe we do have fold equity if we shove.
I believe the loose big stacks will always call a small raise but may fold to a shove

Loose players are even more likely to call a jam from smaller stack because they do not have to worry about further streets. It is easier for them to take the flip, and by doing so you lose the advantage of your skill edge. I would recommend buying CardRunnersEV and test this, you will see that raising preflop to 2.5X clears massive profit here.

Thanks for answers.

Yesterday i had a spot where i shoved pre w A9o from BU with 10bb stack and a loose passive BB called w J8o he had 30bb stack. So i guess this kinda confirms what Rihard4a sad. They just love to call

Originally posted by Rihard4a
Loose players are even more likely to call a jam from smaller stack because they do not have to worry about further streets. It is easier for them to take the flip, and by doing so you lose the advantage of your skill edge. I would recommend buying CardRunnersEV and test this, you will see that raising preflop to 2.5X clears massive profit here.

Thats the opposite of my experience in micros on 888.es particularly late on in a tournament, the weak players still love to see a flop but arent that keen on calling a shove, I guess it depends on what site youre playing on

Originally posted by slippyjim

Originally posted by Rihard4a
Loose players are even more likely to call a jam from smaller stack because they do not have to worry about further streets. It is easier for them to take the flip, and by doing so you lose the advantage of your skill edge. I would recommend buying CardRunnersEV and test this, you will see that raising preflop to 2.5X clears massive profit here.

Thats the opposite of my experience in micros on 888.es particularly late on in a tournament, the weak players still love to see a flop but arent that keen on calling a shove, I guess it depends on what site youre playing on

I can confirm that no. You may think that because you probably do not play enough hands to see this, and you are unlikely to actually to study databases to come to these conclusions.

I'm only going on my hand histories and what I see happen at the games I play.
I do know when I'm at final tables I often see people open limping/ calling a raise but more often than not open limp/fold to a shove which means a shove has more fold equity than a raise in at least some situations

I'll keep a look out for it in future and experiment, but its quite hard to say for sure what people would have done if you played the hand differently anyway