Folding KK pre

I don't think we would be making a mistake by going all in, but I really don't mind folding.

I think I would have called. But I also don't think you were wrong in folding.

Most of the times when I have KK and I'm sure that villain has AA, but I call anyway, I'm usually right.:why:

It is a very tough spot and it requires skill to lay down such a hand. I don't know what I would have done here.. Depends on villain I guess.

Hero fold sir I certainly wouldn't be able to let go of those. Good read.

If you are convinced that you face AA, then you can fold...
It is never a mistake go for stacks with KK pre. So wp.

When I have KK, I would just turn my brain off and go broke pre flop. No matter what the situation is, going broke with KK pre flop will be profitable in the long run. If you are sure that you will face most likely AA only, then you can of course fold.

Originally posted by Hesticus
It is a very tough spot and it requires skill to lay down such a hand. ...

It mostly requires a cold personality. I almost said that it requires balls, but on second though, it requires you have had your balls cut off. Then you could calmly without getting emotionally affected watch them turning over QQ/QQ.

You mostly lose, but win 200+ bb the times you win.

If theres a situation where you ever fold KK this is it. Nice! WIth that big open, cold 4bet and 5bet jam over the 2 of you, folding is good.

Originally posted by YohanN7

Originally posted by Hesticus
It is a very tough spot and it requires skill to lay down such a hand. ...

It mostly requires a cold personality. I almost said that it requires balls, but on second though, it requires you have had your balls cut off. Then you could calmly without getting emotionally affected watch them turning over QQ/QQ.

You mostly lose, but win 200+ bb the times you win.

hahahaha good one

I dont like it. Ok you are little bit deep but folding KK without any specific reads is terrible play. And it's NL5 where people stack off with any kind of shit. Your fold is based on your feelings. Poker isnt a game of feelings.

Originally posted by LuckyLucianooo
Poker isnt a game of feelings.

Let me disagree with this. Poker is based on playing against your opponent's perceived range - and assigning him a range is not precise science, otherwise bots would've been able to do it. You determine opponent's range based on opening range tables, which show how an ABC player would play, and on the way the hand played out so far - but also on villain's table image, his tendency to bluff, and yes, gut feeling

The being said, I finally got a chance to run some numbers

Hand 0: 29.976% 27.25% 02.73% 67224804 6735774.00 { KhKs }
Hand 1: 30.890% 28.11% 02.78% 69362436 6853728.00 { QQ+, AKs, AKo }
Hand 2: 39.135% 36.39% 02.74% 89798010 6761568.00 { QQ+ }

Against these ranges I'm actually the dog!

Hand 0: 34.092% 31.12% 02.97% 121995126 11658330.67 { KhKs }
Hand 1: 25.959% 24.13% 01.83% 94591330 7178124.67 { JJ+, AQs+, AKo }
Hand 2: 39.949% 36.94% 03.01% 144808476 11805336.67 { QQ+ }

Even these ranges, which give the BB a very loose range for a cold 4-bet, only give me a break-even chance to win. I'm likely to win the side pot, but that would not be enough to turn a profit. And as I said, I think this range is very loose for BB

I would happily go all-in against either of them. But not both

Originally posted by Yuris125
...
I would happily go all-in against either of them. But not both

I am neutral on the matter, but the above quote is important. Count your opponents. Double the number of opponents and the number of bluffs you see goes down, not to one half of something, but to something much smaller. We have a bluff catcher and that's it. A good one, so calling cannot be an error, but it is still a bluff catcher. The upside is double reward when we are good. (But remember to compare "double" to "less than one half" according to above.)

MP is short stack and his range should be a little bit wider. The conclusion again is that poker isnt a game of feelings but a game of people. So against more than 1 opponent you stack off only with aces? That's wrong. You play too safe. You have to gamble from time to time.

Ok you were right for once but that doesnt mean that the fold is correct here. On a cash game i am never folding KK vs unknown opponents for 125 BB