JJ in 3bet pot

What is the question here? Give some thoughts...

How wuld you play it? Expecting lot of pocket pairs in his range, maybe some suited conector if he is lose. I guess preflop and flop cbet is standard. What do you think about turn shove!?

IF u 3bet preflop - u should Cbet and stack on blank turn IMO, i dont see other resonable line here.

You cannot fold this hand, so it is ok as played.

What are people's thoughts about 3betting with JJ against MP? Its not a line I would take but perhaps I need think again?

Originally posted by Spud1
What are people's thoughts about 3betting with JJ against MP? Its not a line I would take but perhaps I need think again?

And just set mine with your pair of JJ from the sb against 3 players?

No way josé

lol

I like the way you played it. If you check the turn, what do you do if he bets? If you'd be calling, then why not just bet yourself and protect your hand? If you check and he doesn't bet, you've just given a free card to the large number of hands you're beating and are still behind the smaller range that had you beat anyways, so shove and allow him to make a mistake with his losing range and chalk it up to bad luck if he spiked a set.

Originally posted by Pistoleroo

Originally posted by Spud1
What are people's thoughts about 3betting with JJ against MP? Its not a line I would take but perhaps I need think again?

And just set mine with your pair of JJ from the sb against 3 players?

No way josé

You figure to have the best hand, so raise and maximize your advantage while you have it. You don't want to be OOP against three players without the lead where a lot of flops are going to give you issues (unless you get lucky and flop a set).

Originally posted by Spud1
What are people's thoughts about 3betting with JJ against MP? Its not a line I would take but perhaps I need think again?

I prefer squeezing here. You would have initiative and you can take the money preflop or put pressure postflop. With a call you will feel awkward on Axx, Kxx, Qxx boards.

I think it's fine. Preflop squeeze is not mandatory imo, but when we did it, we have to cbet flop and cbet shove turn with an overpair in this situation.

And just to make sure I'm not completely out of line with everyone - if we only have MP raise and no cold callers, are we 3betting the same range as we squeeze, a tighter or looser one

Thanks

It depends on MP stats.

Same ones as this example, but interested to understand how you might adjust to different stats

Vs this tight guy I will not 3b JJ.
The basic is the fold to 3b stat and the opening range from this position.

This hand looks good to me.

Originally posted by Spud1
And just to make sure I'm not completely out of line with everyone - if we only have MP raise and no cold callers, are we 3betting the same range as we squeeze, a tighter or looser one

Thanks

I would be looking at the stats nitrol talked about, and I personally would still 3B the majority of the time, but would mix in a few more calls against this player type as he probably doesn't call as liberally with hands we're a bigger favorite against like suited connectors and Ax. Always good to have some variety.

Originally posted by Pistoleroo

Originally posted by Spud1
What are people's thoughts about 3betting with JJ against MP? Its not a line I would take but perhaps I need think again?

And just set mine with your pair of JJ from the sb against 3 players?

No way josé

Lol
No - my logic may not be good, but I'm not just set mining.

On most flop there is still all sort of stuff in villains range, so I can easily check call against flop, and depending on the board the turn too.

It also means that my preflop calling range has some strength, if I'm 3betting everthing then it gets very weak.

I'm not saying that 3betting the JJ is bad, just interested to hear others opinions.

What if we have TT or 99, where do people draw the line?

Originally posted by Spud1

Originally posted by Pistoleroo

Originally posted by Spud1
What are people's thoughts about 3betting with JJ against MP? Its not a line I would take but perhaps I need think again?

And just set mine with your pair of JJ from the sb against 3 players?

No way josé

Lol
No - my logic may not be good, but I'm not just set mining.

On most flop there is still all sort of stuff in villains range, so I can easily check call against flop, and depending on the board the turn too.

It also means that my preflop calling range has some strength, if I'm 3betting everthing then it gets very weak.

I'm not saying that 3betting the JJ is bad, just interested to hear others opinions.

What if we have TT or 99, where do people draw the line?

I tend to clump pocket pairs into groups: AA-TT, 99-66 & 55-22. I'm going to raise the high and low ends more (high for obvious reasons and low because of less showdown strength) than the middle bunch, but will mix in raises with those too, just less frequently. Just depends on stats and game flow for me. I do agree with you that it's important to keep our calling range including some stronger hands as well, but I think his tendencies (especially the lower stakes we go) will matter to me more than keeping my range solid. You can be more exploitable and straightforward when playing players that aren't aware of your range and what it is/should be. I take this thought and simply try to put myself in situations where I can narrow my opponent's range down more easily, and I can do that more effectively with raising OOP if I have a good sense of his PF raising range.
In this hand, if villain has shown he'll one-and-done in the past, I'm going to call my middle and low pairs more, because I have more confidence of playing the hand optimally on later streets. If he's shown he can double-barrel or at least has a higher AF/% on later streets I'm going to raise more, because I know OOP without the lead he's going to put me in tough spots with a much wider range.

I also like it as played. We should squeeze here indeed as Axx, Kxx, Qxx happen around 57% of the time. We should try to avoid it.