AKo vs 3bet and coldcall

You are oop, your hand is not suited and you probably don't want to play vs 2. I think you could 4bet here.

4bet / all in would be my approache here

There is a lot of fold equity so 4bet seems fine, but honestly I would just call. There is still a lot of space to play post-flop.

4bet, we are oop and our hand is not suited. Against 5bet shove I am folding btw - calling PF AI with AKo has not been profitable for me for a big sample of hands.

Originally posted by msnek
4bet, we are oop and our hand is not suited. Against 5bet shove I am folding btw - calling PF AI with AKo has not been profitable for me for a big sample of hands.

What stake are you playing at?

You are going to need to be willing to broke AK because otherwise you become exploitable.

Of course you can fold AK vs tight opponents on NL2. But the higher the stakes the more regs will notice you not willing to broke anything but AA and KK. They will 4 and 5bet bluff you often while folding to your shoves everytime!

@OP
4betting is much better here than calling. BTNs range is capped anyway and CO is an unknown who you don't wanna play a big pot OOP with while having to rely on hitting your hand.

I guess 4 betting is indeed better because AK plays bad oop. Soetimes folding is even better option than call AK oop. You have to have a specific reason for that.

Konkronus: NL10 6max zoom or other fast tables on other sites. Most of the unknows are just too tight (nitty) from my own experience. But I got just around 200k hands so .. maybe it is a small sample.

msnek, usually you are right, but did you play (and call All Ins) this week? It just funny what people are willing to do to get there card done.

You are going All In with AK (not in EP!) not because the move itself is profitable, but so that your AI with AA and KK is more profitable and so that its not profitable to 4bet AI every single one of your 3bets. The same goes for QQ in HJ When you have your preflop RFI ranges set you need to have big enough 4bet and call3bet ranges to prevent autoprofit from 3betting you. And then you need big enough broke Ranges, so that shoving over your 4bets doesn't become autoprofit. Similar math is done for defending. I end up 4bet folding AKo pre in UTG, but 4bet broking AKo in HJ because of my wider range.

That means if you are tight enough preflop you can end up with a broking range of only AA and KK. But then you are so tight preflop that the blinds are going to eat your profits

You are going All In with AK (not in EP!) not because the move itself is profitable, but so that your AI with AA and KK is more profitable and so that its not profitable to 4bet AI every single one of your 3bets. The same goes for QQ in HJ When you have your preflop RFI ranges set you need to have big enough 4bet and call3bet ranges to prevent autoprofit from 3betting you.

That is true ... if you are playing against solid opponents who actually have either read on you or decent sample (or both). It is very hard to get decent sample on zoom especially at these stakes I mentioned. And even though some guys have higher sample on you they cant and will not adjust anyway. Also people are lazy to take notes and pick up reads (again - especially at zoom).

You dont have to play balanced ranges vs. unknows at zoom micros. They wont exploit you enough. Most people just dont adjust enough. Actually this (what I recommend) is adjustement made by us based on population reads.

If we run into a range of QQ+, AK, we have around 38% Equity, which means, if we put lets say $2,70 into the pot for 4betting, we are committed and have to call a shove. Together, with the assumption that Villains also fold quite some time, it's actually burning money 4bet/folding. But my problem in the hand was that it also always feels like I run into the better.

Originally posted by msnek

You dont have to play balanced ranges vs. unknows at zoom micros. They wont exploit you enough. Most people just dont adjust enough. Actually this (what I recommend) is adjustement made by us based on population reads.

Yes, you may be right under normal circumstances. But during the CardMatch Promotion, I would recommend not folding AK preflop because people are going crazy

yeah this spot against two seemingly tight players (even though low sample) is really gross on micros.
reflex is to sigh 4betcall but i just don't really see you actually making money here, you are just oop against two probably strong ranges so you are probably just fucked regardless. if you call you're probably just winning small pots losing big ones since you are oop

Originally posted by MisterSnS
If we run into a range of QQ+, AK, we have around 38% Equity, which means, if we put lets say $2,70 into the pot for 4betting, we are committed and have to call a shove. Together, with the assumption that Villains also fold quite some time, it's actually burning money 4bet/folding. But my problem in the hand was that it also always feels like I run into the better.

Since when do people only 3bet with QQ+, AK vs HJ? Actually, BTN is capped from that range and will 90% fold to a 4bet unless CO calls the 4bet. Together with the FE 4betting is certrainly profitable. That's not the question in my eyes.

The question was if calling or 4betting is better. I doubt calling is profitable at all since you are going to be in a 3 way 3bet pot OOP, losing 20% of hands to the CO (with his set, a PP is what he most likely calls with) and 2/3 to the preflop aggressor when you don't hit the flop. And when you do hit you are never getting value. You are just getting stacked sometimes.

Originally posted by Konkronus

Originally posted by msnek

You dont have to play balanced ranges vs. unknows at zoom micros. They wont exploit you enough. Most people just dont adjust enough. Actually this (what I recommend) is adjustement made by us based on population reads.

Yes, you may be right under normal circumstances. But during the CardMatch Promotion, I would recommend not folding AK preflop because people are going crazy

Oh, thats a good point !

Originally posted by MisterSnS
If we run into a range of QQ+, AK, we have around 38% Equity, which means, if we put lets say $2,70 into the pot for 4betting, we are committed and have to call a shove. Together, with the assumption that Villains also fold quite some time, it's actually burning money 4bet/folding. But my problem in the hand was that it also always feels like I run into the better.

Hmm yeah, but I think at this stake we just HAVE to count in the rake since it is huuuuuge. Lets try and calculate this ?

4bet, you will get called anyway but at least the stack to pot ratio will be small enough to make this hand easier to play postflop.
If you just call the pot will be small and you may have to play 3streets with this difficult hand OOP.

Originally posted by Konkronus
Since when do people only 3bet with QQ+, AK vs HJ? Actually, BTN is capped from that range and will 90% fold to a 4bet unless CO calls the 4bet. Together with the FE 4betting is certrainly profitable. That's not the question in my eyes.

btn is not necessarily capped, a good player definitely can have KK+ as traps. in any case i agree with the general sentiment, just 4bet and probably sigh call a shove, hope for enough QQ AK and worse... and also it's good for the general gameplan etc