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IvicaIliev77 Topic starter
IvicaIliev77
Joined: 31.05.2012
PokerStrategist

Originally posted by Primrose6789

I enjoy candy and sweats too much and I buy them and eat them all!!!

You are not the only one! :sifflote:

Learn GTO to know how to play vs very good opponents who are balanced and understand range vs range very well but focus more on learning what average opponents do at your stake and exploit their leaks for maximizing EV.

Can you tell us more about that?

Sure, I will take extreme example to make it easy to understand.

Say that pre flop opponent folds to your open 100% but you don't exploit it by rather play GTO (game theory optimum). By doing so your EV (expected value) drops and you loose chips/money over time. So while GTO states that in such case you should open such and such % and use such and such sizing and aim to be balanced in such and such way depending on stack sizes, ICM (if there is any) and opponents range, in reality if opponent plays different from what GTO predicts it you will loose EV.
So the conclusion is to always aim to understand what average opponent on your stake does and adjust strategy based on that. Then you want to practice to adjust your strategy vs very specific opponents (how regs play, how fish play, then aggro regs, passive and aggro fish etc) and land on different ways you would play hand differently to maximize EV each time.
Finally, you learn GTO because you expect as you move up in stakes to encounter regs more and more and people who will spend time in the lab (outside of tables) studying these things and working on improving their leaks. If they improve and start to play more balanced, they will exploit your unbalanced strategy. So vs them you need to learn to balance more so that their balance actually is wrong and you end up having more value vs them in such spots and make money.
This of course is difficult and long road to take as you can never be 100% sure what your opponent does and you are playing guessing game. Also, opponent can and sometimes does change and vary play, so while you adjust he/she will readjust and then you burn money again. But overall, people don't think nor work hard enough on this. They end up with 1 or several game plans that they don't tweak nor learn how to improve and adapt and that is why any strong reg opponent can take their game plan analyze it and own them. Example in practice , say your opponent on wet textures always xr(check/raises) TPSK (top pair strong kicker) and all draws. You can by doing GTO and vs exploitative strategy learn that opponent is polarized and by having such xr range he or she allows you to extend and bluff catch wider with your cbetting strategy. If on the other hand opponent includes only nuts hands in xr on wet textures and you start to bet/call his/her raises with wider range, now you burn chips/money. So it is constant game of adjusting and readjusting. Amazing players know this well and work hard to pick up tells and ways how their opponent plays in each spot and if he or she adjusts. To me, note taking is key for me there. It allows me to track and follow what such opponent did vs me in very specific spots and I later(next time we meet) re adjust my strategy to exploit that leak. Beauty of spins is that you never have enough hands with all the players so you need to practice to become fast and catching all these little signals opponents give you and punish their leaks while covering yours. And covering leaks is best to practice with GTO approach because it is balanced way to play poker and it defends you from potential exploits of opponents .

Hope that made sense and helped :)

P.S. We can also save in archives this post for GTO vs Exploitable approach and why both are great and useful for reference that new or existing players can use to understand importance of both.


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IvicaIliev77 Topic starter
IvicaIliev77
Joined: 31.05.2012
PokerStrategist

Another awesome session with A game

Yesterday studied again, focused on difficult spot and kept analyzing vs another expected strategy from opponents. It helped me really understand how to adjust my range vs such opponent and today it came up in the session several times. 1 of the games I won 6x because of owning opponent in that spot. So 4-5 hours of study this week certainly translating and paying off when it comes to future ROI. Look forward continuing to work on this spot and then move on to a new one.

Volume wise not so good. Spending each day watching NBA and winning money with a friend betting on games there. Financially things are looking awesome. Already half of the money (a bit more) is earned from 5k goal in 60 hours of grind which is very solid. The most important things are : 1) My win rate is improving in this period because I am focusing hard to improve 2) I restarted my studying with 80-20 rule to focus on spots that give me most trouble and db analysis 3) Variance is good, getting and winning a lot of multipliers helps me get there faster

Hard to tell if it will take 200 hours to reach 5k goal. As I said in 60 hours grind I have already passed 2.6k mark (2683$). So anything can happen. I will continue to play 4 to 5 sessions per day but focus to improve win rate. I am positive it can be 70+ on this limit easily with several more leaks/textures adjusted with ranges.

Enjoy your weekend on and off the tables!


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ievinja1989
Joined: 18.09.2015
PokerStrategist

hello!

iv been a silent reader of your blog for some time now and i have to say, its been really helpfull in alot of ways.

im learning spins myself and i wonder what cEV/tourney would u suggest targeting at each level when moving up through the limits? for now im 70cEV on 1s over 2.5k sample and im not so sure if thats enough to move up or should i stay and improve before i do that? my main goal for now is to reach 7s with 4%+ ROI, could u mby give me some advice on how to achieve it as soon as possible, most common mistakes or areas to focus on?

best wishes in your journey :f_drink:


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Primrose6789
Joined: 01.07.2016
PokerStrategist

Aim to improve, to play your best and understand why you and your opponents do certain things. Become great at adapting and reading people and you will be fine over long period/stretch.

This is the most important point!

So the conclusion is to always aim to understand what average opponent on your stake does and adjust strategy based on that. Then you want to practice to adjust your strategy vs very specific opponents (how regs play, how fish play, then aggro regs, passive and aggro fish etc) and land on different ways you would play hand differently to maximize EV each time.

You ALWAYS have to adjust the strategy. See the micros, where I still am: You cannot just play according to ICM. There are so many people who make such bad calls! One has to adjust to that.

Finally, you learn GTO because you expect as you move up in stakes to encounter regs more and more and people who will spend time in the lab (outside of tables) studying these things and working on improving their leaks. If they improve and start to play more balanced, they will exploit your unbalanced strategy. So vs them you need to learn to balance more so that their balance actually is wrong and you end up having more value vs them in such spots and make money.

Aaaaw, that makes sense of course!

Example in practice , say your opponent on wet textures always xr(check/raises) TPSK (top pair strong kicker) and all draws. You can by doing GTO and vs exploitative strategy learn that opponent is polarized and by having such xr range he or she allows you to extend and bluff catch wider with your cbetting strategy.

That makes sense of course!

I guess the hardest part is to exploit your opponents very well. Yes, it´s a guessing game and you can´t be 100% sure but you can try to do it as precisely as possible. That´s what I already try to do. I try to put my opponents on a range as precisely as possible. It takes a lot of practice and experience.

Thank you very much for your explanation. Yes, it makes A LOT OF sense! :f_thumbsup:


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MJQuads
Joined: 27.01.2008
Elite Grinder

Hey there mate!

I just found your blog, I'm a cash game player so I didn't focus a lot on your "poker" aspect when flying through your blog, but I did notice you mentioned 80/20 rule quite oftenly. I googled it and I get an idea what it means, but how do you apply it to poker? In a sense that you stopped doing 80% of poker related stuff that actually wasn't bringing results and actually focused on 20% that bring most improvement? I'd like to hear more about it, since I'm really procrastinating in terms of studying the game and therefore I think my results are nowhere near where they could be.

Anyway, favorited your blog, seems like you talk about a lot of interesting stuff that I found intriguing :) Have fun and good luck with poker, betting, etc! ;)

P.S.: Hello from Slovenia, we're almost neighbours anyway :)


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IvicaIliev77 Topic starter
IvicaIliev77
Joined: 31.05.2012
PokerStrategist

Originally posted by ievinja1989
hello!

iv been a silent reader of your blog for some time now and i have to say, its been really helpfull in alot of ways.

im learning spins myself and i wonder what cEV/tourney would u suggest targeting at each level when moving up through the limits? for now im 70cEV on 1s over 2.5k sample and im not so sure if thats enough to move up or should i stay and improve before i do that? my main goal for now is to reach 7s with 4%+ ROI, could u mby give me some advice on how to achieve it as soon as possible, most common mistakes or areas to focus on?

best wishes in your journey :f_drink:

Hi and thanks for following and finding inspiration in the blog.

When it comes to your questions there is 2 ways to tackle it (to simplify things).
1) Approach improving stats for pre and post flop by copying what successful players have.
2) Work on the game plan yourself, figure out most common spots that you win and burn chips/money and work on improving them to increase win rate.

1st approach is OK and something that I see a lot of people do, especially in programs. Coaches would tell them open such and such %, 3 bet such and such %, c bet this %, call flop this much etc. If you have no experience and have no idea why this works you will just play and click buttons without understanding key things in poker which is relative vs absolute strength, range vs range analysis and exploiting different opponent tendencies. This is why I am not a fan of this approach. In a way it blocks your improvement and creates you to play like a bot while you don't become good/great at understanding and adjusting your play and game plan.

2nd approach I prefer and I consider it more correct but it depends on what level you are starting on. If you already have HU game plan down for SB and BB for example, then you can take different textures and understand/start to learn and study why to play what kind of hands to maximize EV of each of your hands. This basically means understanding what sizing to use for 3 barrel on different textures, vs different opponents, when to play polarized when merged, when to extend your value betting range, when you have bluff catcher and when you should aim towards folding, to do db analysis of your limit to figure out leaks of average opponent. This is the way that will make you understand both pre and post flop how to improve adjust and increase your win rate.

I will say, aim to understand and be confident in your game. The actual cEV is not of major concern because on sample of 1-2k tournaments you can have downswing or upswing and your cEV can vary a lot. So what matters more is how you feel about your game plan(s) pre and post flop 3/3 and in HU. If you feel you are cruising then you are ready to move up. If on the other hand you feel that you loose a lot of HU games on your limit, then you likely need to stay there until you feel absolutely confident and fearless vs opponents on your current stake.
HU is the most important aspect of spins of course, because that directly wins you money. Become brutal at HU part of game and your win rate will increase. 80-20 rule.

Hope that helped!


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IvicaIliev77 Topic starter
IvicaIliev77
Joined: 31.05.2012
PokerStrategist

Originally posted by Primrose6789

Aim to improve, to play your best and understand why you and your opponents do certain things. Become great at adapting and reading people and you will be fine over long period/stretch.

This is the most important point!

So the conclusion is to always aim to understand what average opponent on your stake does and adjust strategy based on that. Then you want to practice to adjust your strategy vs very specific opponents (how regs play, how fish play, then aggro regs, passive and aggro fish etc) and land on different ways you would play hand differently to maximize EV each time.

You ALWAYS have to adjust the strategy. See the micros, where I still am: You cannot just play according to ICM. There are so many people who make such bad calls! One has to adjust to that.

Finally, you learn GTO because you expect as you move up in stakes to encounter regs more and more and people who will spend time in the lab (outside of tables) studying these things and working on improving their leaks. If they improve and start to play more balanced, they will exploit your unbalanced strategy. So vs them you need to learn to balance more so that their balance actually is wrong and you end up having more value vs them in such spots and make money.

Aaaaw, that makes sense of course!

Example in practice , say your opponent on wet textures always xr(check/raises) TPSK (top pair strong kicker) and all draws. You can by doing GTO and vs exploitative strategy learn that opponent is polarized and by having such xr range he or she allows you to extend and bluff catch wider with your cbetting strategy.

That makes sense of course!

I guess the hardest part is to exploit your opponents very well. Yes, it´s a guessing game and you can´t be 100% sure but you can try to do it as precisely as possible. That´s what I already try to do. I try to put my opponents on a range as precisely as possible. It takes a lot of practice and experience.

Thank you very much for your explanation. Yes, it makes A LOT OF sense! :f_thumbsup:

My pleasure, happy to help.
Let me know how you are doing!


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IvicaIliev77 Topic starter
IvicaIliev77
Joined: 31.05.2012
PokerStrategist

Originally posted by MJQuads
Hey there mate!

I just found your blog, I'm a cash game player so I didn't focus a lot on your "poker" aspect when flying through your blog, but I did notice you mentioned 80/20 rule quite oftenly. I googled it and I get an idea what it means, but how do you apply it to poker? In a sense that you stopped doing 80% of poker related stuff that actually wasn't bringing results and actually focused on 20% that bring most improvement? I'd like to hear more about it, since I'm really procrastinating in terms of studying the game and therefore I think my results are nowhere near where they could be.

Anyway, favorited your blog, seems like you talk about a lot of interesting stuff that I found intriguing :) Have fun and good luck with poker, betting, etc! ;)

P.S.: Hello from Slovenia, we're almost neighbours anyway :)

Hey mate!
Greetings from Serbia to fellow ex YU republic!

I will give you theory and then specific approach that I would use since I did CG zoom 6 handed and got to nl100 before I went to USA and then came back and switched to Spins in March this year.

So 80-20, idea is like you found already to do 20% of things that bring 80% of results. This ratio isn't always 80-20, sometimes it can be 90-10 70-30 or so but the idea is simple. Simplify things down to absolute basics to make it as easy and systematic for you to follow work on and to bring you results.

Say that you play 6 max ZOOM. What would be great thing to start to apply 80-20 rule?
I will give you pointers and then you can take it from here.
1) Where do you play most hands? (most VPIP with or without PFR)
2) What are the biggest hands won and lost , how do they happen/when?
3) What other things can you simplify or categorize to make learning easier? (IP vs OOP play; initial aggressor vs call caller; categorizing hands by absolute nuts must bet down to 1 street of value worth as aggressor and then must calls as caller to bottom of bluff catching range)

Do you see what I did there? I made things super simple. I will give some answers now to make this easy and applicable for you.

1) Focus on learning how to play BTN.
After all this is where you play 50% of hands as initial aggressor on average or more vs passive opponents in blinds. So you want to take each of the hands in that range, take different flop textures, put in opponents cold call range from BB for example and figure out if you should c bet flop, what sizing, who has range advantage, what are good turn cards for you to continue to barrel, what is potential great river card for 3 barrel, what sizing would fold stronger hands and what sizing will get weaker hands to call you.
When you are done with BTN, move on to BB because you cold call + 3 bet with high % of hands from this position. Improve these 2 positions and you will improve your win rate instantly. There is your 80-20 right there!

2) Lets assume that going all in pre flop is where the biggest hands happen so 200bb+ pots.
Figure out mathematically what range opponents use to open, 4 bet and call 5 bet shove, and vice versa, what they 3 bet and 5 bet shove with. What is their value to bluff ratio? What is tendency on limits that you play on? Do people ever 5 bet bluff? Do they 5 bet merged, if so with what range? How do regs play differently? How do fish play?
You take these stats, put them in CREV, get the ranges and start printing money. EZ game, you just learned why sometimes AK will be 5 bet call and why sometimes even KK will be fold.

3) Learn value of IP vs OOP.
How your hands change value when you are IP vs OOP. When you should be checking more to realize equity. How do average opponents play when you are OOP and check to them? How do they play when you check IP?
By doing analysis here you understand what kind of hands you need to fit where to maximize EV of them.
Learn as initial aggressor vs cold caller.
Where are you more aggressive? How do people as cold callers play, how light do they call 3 streets? What about as initial aggressor , on what textures do they bluff a lot and on what do they not do it at all?
Learn relative vs absolute strength hand on all textures.
When to bet polarized, when merged, what sizing is applicable where. How your opponents play, using absolute or relative strength hand ?

Hope you and others stuck found this response useful and that it will take you places!


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ievinja1989
Joined: 18.09.2015
PokerStrategist

Very nice of you writting this extended answer to me, much appreciaded!
Thanks :f_thumbsup:


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IvicaIliev77 Topic starter
IvicaIliev77
Joined: 31.05.2012
PokerStrategist

Originally posted by ievinja1989
Very nice of you writting this extended answer to me, much appreciaded!
Thanks :f_thumbsup:

:f_thumbsup:


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IvicaIliev77 Topic starter
IvicaIliev77
Joined: 31.05.2012
PokerStrategist

Quick but important update!

On this Monday, payed off whole apartment mortgage!!!
Spent whole Monday celebrating with both family friends and girls in the night! Then Tuesday more celebrating :) Today getting back into the rhythm a bit.
From tomorrow I will resume grind, teaching and schedule training!!!
Since Saturday I didn't train, I MISS IT SO MUCH ALREADY, and in the meanwhile I probably drank like 50+ Rakija shots and ate a lot of Serbian barbeque type meat in restaurants + put lots of carbs in my body. I probably weight at least 83kgs now easyyyyy. My trainings resume with group no more 1 on 1!
In the meanwhile, I gave green light to my dentist to set up the final works for my tooth implants. I will pay 240 euros and it will all be done in 4-5 days. She will let me know the starting day tomorrow.

After this middle phase period settles and passes (me returning to 4 times per week training, resuming grind, teaching 6-7 hours per week and finishing with tooth implants) I can finally dedicate to crush at 15s and resume my studying on texture that I feel I need to improve my knowledge the most.

In the meanwhile girl I like for long time is giving me way in but it is with lots of mixed signals and I don't want to try and fail with her. We had something in the past, just a short fling, it stopped and after that we stayed friends. She can tell I like her now (stopped liking her in the meanwhile but still had feelings somewhere deep towards her) and now she seems to be more ready then before for me. The way I feel is not to take it anywhere, just keep the situation as it is until I get much more clear body language signal from her and her engaging more in talks with me. Her asking me once personal questions and sending me winks on Viber doesn't count

In the meanwhile watched my friend play nl25 zoom. He absolutely owned it 4 tabling with sick win rate and even sicker red line. That is my friend that can beat nl100 zoom and likely be winner at 200 but he chooses not to play poker full time. I learned so much from him in the past (when I was switching to CG) as well as w34z3l. I saw some unexpected lines but that is only because he is master of range vs range and because CG zoom is 100bb deep and Spins are 25bb or less, and range construction and range vs range works significantly different post flop!!! So I need to accept that what he does is awesome but it won't necessarily help me increase my win rate on Spins. He did tell me to analyze HH write out questions about lines whenever I have some, which is my plan for future study as well.

Enjoy your week and time to get back on track from all the celebrating and love drama lol :f_cool:


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stevegold87
Joined: 18.06.2009
PokerStrategist

Congrats on your paid mortgage!! :f_drink: :f_drink:

P.s not poker related,
I am out of the single game for a while but with the girl you like just make sure you don't fall into the friendzone :)


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IvicaIliev77 Topic starter
IvicaIliev77
Joined: 31.05.2012
PokerStrategist

Originally posted by stevegold87
Congrats on your paid mortgage!! :f_drink: :f_drink:

P.s not poker related,
I am out of the single game for a while but with the girl you like just make sure you don't fall into the friendzone :)

:f_drink:

No friend zone We are just keeping distance not engaging much in any conversation. She knows I won't allow her to use me and put me in friend zone and I know she doesn't want me for that. It will take effort and skill but I can pull it off and turn it around. The thing is, I don't feel like it at all now. Used to like her a lot, now I look forward going to Asia and meeting Asian girls. Its like when I get back home and if she starts giving me strong vibe I will pursue her, if not I will let it be as it is which is on very neutral territory and will likely start giving her silent treatment to drive her crazy a bit (to think about what she is doing wrong). :)


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rompas
Joined: 12.02.2014
Oldschool Grinder

Great news Sir, happy for you and your family and well done :f_thumbsup:


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IvicaIliev77 Topic starter
IvicaIliev77
Joined: 31.05.2012
PokerStrategist

Originally posted by rompas
Great news Sir, happy for you and your family and well done :f_thumbsup:

Much thanks Sir!
:f_thumbsup:


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Primrose6789
Joined: 01.07.2016
PokerStrategist

Used to like her a lot, now I look forward going to Asia and meeting Asian girls. Its like when I get back home and if she starts giving me strong vibe I will pursue her, if not I will let it be as it is which is on very neutral territory and will likely start giving her silent treatment to drive her crazy a bit (to think about what she is doing wrong).

Keep us up to date! I love romantic stories! :f_love:


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IvicaIliev77 Topic starter
IvicaIliev77
Joined: 31.05.2012
PokerStrategist

Originally posted by Primrose6789

Used to like her a lot, now I look forward going to Asia and meeting Asian girls. Its like when I get back home and if she starts giving me strong vibe I will pursue her, if not I will let it be as it is which is on very neutral territory and will likely start giving her silent treatment to drive her crazy a bit (to think about what she is doing wrong).

Keep us up to date! I love romantic stories! :f_love:

That's great. Yesterday some things happened. We are either moving forward or backwards. I celebrated with my friends and watched Serbia game, she was there and we might have talked or not, too many long island ice teas to remember But definitely, in next days and weeks things will develop to more evolved relationship or go down to no communication at all. I can tell she likes me and that she wants me in her life. What I don't like is that she is somewhat acting calculated, holding back in a way. If you like someone show it - whats the worst thing that can happen?
So yeah, I like her, she likes me for sure but there is something going on in her life and mind that is preventing her to go all in pre flop and get her aces to hold
Also, last night I talked to one of the guys that apparently likes her. He told me that the rumors are not true and that I was misinformed. He is a friend of mine so we had a good talk and I told him if he is pursuing her just to be honest cause I would think less of him if he just did something with her while telling me opposite. He assured me that nothing will happen that he thinks she is great girl but that's it.
My best friend and friends last night saw me talking to that friend and thought I would fight him. He has medals in martial arts so they were afraid I would get my beaten up
Fun times last night for sure ;)


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tonypmm
Joined: 11.01.2009
Oldschool Grinder

You're making romance sound like poker - trying to read her soul :f_biggrin:

I prefer to have a life that's less like the main job (poker), to forget about the job more often, you know :f_biggrin:


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Primrose6789
Joined: 01.07.2016
PokerStrategist

Originally posted by tonypmm
You're making romance sound like poker - trying to read her soul :f_biggrin:

I prefer to have a life that's less like the main job (poker), to forget about the job more often, you know :f_biggrin:

A very good attitude, tony. It´s important to clear your head. I notice that in my job (writing). When I just take a break in my mind, get some distance, afterwards I have the best ideas! :f_thumbsup:


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IvicaIliev77 Topic starter
IvicaIliev77
Joined: 31.05.2012
PokerStrategist

Originally posted by tonypmm
You're making romance sound like poker - trying to read her soul :f_biggrin:

I prefer to have a life that's less like the main job (poker), to forget about the job more often, you know :f_biggrin:

Doing that on purpose of course because it is poker blog after all :)


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