Originally posted by Waiboy
This thread got awesome... thrust, parry and some actual reasoned philosophical debate... we definitely got our moneys worth on this one!!And all because so many of you dudes can't accept the clear fact that poker is rigged to make monies for the Man.
ITS ALL RIGGEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEED!!!!
Originally posted by p0kerQT
I'm gettin a headache just thinkin about reading these posts =l srsly have you nothing better to do than write 3000 word essays on how poker is rigged, if you put that much effort into actually studying the game you would realise its not rigged, bad beats happen, if you cant deal with it then quit!!!!!!!!!
And if you took as much time in reading the actual posts instead of coming up with inane stupid statements then you may get a better understanding as well...
Originally posted by williamtywong
In a live pokerroom, we actually watch the dealer shuffle cards. Are you saying that they have special cheating ways of shuffling too then?
And therein you highlight your ignorance.
So you have never heard of cheating in live games ?
Dealing from the bottom or marking cards has never happened in a live game..
And in the eyes of every country in the modern world, Poker is defined as gambling... Like it or not.. It is..
You can try claiming its a game of skill if you like, but so can the man who decides which horse to back. You try telling someone who bets on horses they are not gambling...
I don't necessarily believe it nor disbelieve that online poker is rigged. Many arguments used on both sides have holes. It is equally in the sites' interest to keep the game fair to keep players and also to increase the rake. I have also heard interesting theories on "randomly rigged" software.
Just like any business, the regular customers are the ones that keep the business going, whether it be a restaurant, law firm, or poker site. The solid, regular players are the best customers of a site.
With the Absolute Poker scandal, it was the good high stakes players that outed it. So as of now, the sites know that players are capable of holding them accountable. And even the Absolute scandal wasn't rigged software, but a rogue employee hacking and playing while seeing all the hole cards.
Also, one thing that hasn't been mentioned is that pros play internet poker. If the pros say they wouldn't touch internet poker, then it is a cause for concern. I don't think most pros would play on (the top players endorse sites) a rigged site, and they are the best players who know almost all angles.
They may not be inside employees, but they are perfectly capable of recognizing when something isn't right, much like the group of players at absolute. And unlike the players at Absolute, the pros have much more visibility and can just say the word and kill a site's reputation.
And if you think the majority of professional poker players are "in on it", then you probably should not play a game like poker, which requires psychological fitness in order to be successful. I enjoy a good conspiracy theory like anyone else, but most pros are the last people who would damage the game they love and would want nothing to do with anything that hurts their profession, both from a financial aspect and dignity aspect.
It is impossible to know if a site is rigged and it is definitely a leap of faith. I have heard many theories about casinos as well. And casinos have gotten in trouble too. Anytime you invest money in or patronize a business there is a risk. I don't think the risk is any higher on internet poker than it is with casinos, stock markets, buying tainted meat at a store or getting hosed by a real estate salesperson. But you can get indicators by looking to people who know more than you.
Originally posted by strat9
I don't necessarily believe it nor disbelieve that online poker is rigged. Many arguments used on both sides have holes. It is equally in the sites' interest to keep the game fair to keep players and also to increase the rake. I have also heard interesting theories on "randomly rigged" software..
Almost exactly what I have been saying all along. There is no definitive proof either way.
THose that say it is 100% rigged have no proof other than isolated cases and those that say it isnt likewise have no proof, relying solely on the belief that somehow no one would be daft enough to try it..
Just recently we've had one of the richest men in the world pleading guilty to mass fraud. $55 Billion worth.. If someone with that sized empire will try it, a small poker site struggling to compete with the big boys wouldnt think twice about it.
Look at how many poker sites go bust each year. If they could devise a way to get an edge and maybe save themselves then they would go for it, because if they get caught they go out of business. If they dont do something they still go out of business. So why not try..
The problem is people think that all poker sites are as big and mighty as Full Tilt and Pokerstars, but they are not. Some are really small and even a 5% swing in their favour can be enough to stop them going bust.
And in the eyes of every country in the modern world, Poker is defined as gambling... Like it or not.. It is.. You can try claiming its a game of skill if you like, but so can the man who decides which horse to back. You try telling someone who bets on horses they are not gambling...
I really like how you go on a tangent and completely ignore anything other people are saying.
First off, your argument is basically all about arguing nothing. You try to stand in the middle and say cheating is possible, without the guts to actually point to some evidence and say why. I'm one to believe that an argument is worthless unless you can present an alternative. All you've been doing is telling everyone else how it is "possible" that they are wrong, without providing good arguments about why.
It's like me going to scientists and telling them that the theory of evolution might be wrong.
ME: The theory of evolution might not 100% be true.
Scientists: Why do you say that?
ME: I dont' know, but you have to admit that you cant' be 100% sure
Scientists: Ok, fine, nothing is ever SURE in this world, but research has shown that the theory of evolution is very likely to be accurate, that is why they teach it in schools now.
ME: Well, you cant' be 100% sure
Scientists: So what's your point?
ME: That you cant' be 100% sure, so that makes me smarter than you.
Scientists: Well, maybe you should come up with some alternate theories that might have more truth in them then?
ME: Nah, I'm happy sitting here and telling you that you cant' be 100% sure.
Nothing in life is ever for sure, but we accept some theories as the truth based on repeated research (i.e. gravity). In your case, you would argue to us that we can't be 100% sure about gravity. Well, you are correct then. But if you're going to go through life questioning everything in that way and constantly thinking that someone is out to screw you, then maybe you should just stay at home. Then again, you can't be 100% sure that your home is your home. Maybe while you were writing this post, someone hacked into the system and changed the ownership of your place.
NO ONE is saying that they can be sure 100% that poker isnt' rigged. It's because we're all smart enough to understand that nothing in life is 100%, and so that is already assumed, there is no need to argue about it. Rather, we find arguments which suggest that it is unlikely, but then you go and argue on semantics and say people are dumb because no one can be 100% sure. Your only argument is that we cant' be 100% sure, which is no argument at all, because this is already an assumed fact of life.
With regards to the gambling, you've completely ignored the point again.
WHO is the man betting on the horse gambling against? THE HOUSE
As a poker player, WHO are you gambling against? OTHER PLAYERS
Poker is defined as gambling, true, but you can't seem to accept the difference between gambling vs. the house, and gambling vs other players. When you gamble vs. other players, the players might try to cheat you, but this has nothing to do with the house. It give the house NO ADVANTAGE to condone cheating amongst players.
If you truly believe that when you are playing poker, it is the same as you sitting at the blackjack table and playing, then, like some of the other posters here, I suggest that you quit poker. Otherwise, you'll just end up going bust, like all blackjack players, or horse betters, even those who have a "system."
In poker, it is possible for you to be playing +ev by using a system, in blackjack or horse-betting, that is NOT POSSIBLE, EVER. The house always has an advantage there.
But then again, if you can't even understand the fundamental difference between the role of the house in poker, and the role of the house in blackjack, then there's really not much to discuss.
Pssssshhhh.....
Riggedness of poker is a well kept secret, CIA is in on it too..... I warned you guys
To fcumred :
Man look ok ur right we are not 100% sure it aint rigged but as williamtywong said we aint 100% sure bout anything in life so get over it.
Second thing i want to tell u is that one of my best friends has been playing on Pokerstars for 6 years,he lives with money he earns from there and bout
2 months ago he got 3rd in the Sunday Million tournament and he won about 110,000$ there.Right now i am writing this thing from his computer,in the new house he bought with this money about one month ago.Btw he played this 100thousand,grinded em up to 200,000 and cashed out 150,000 and i swear to god as he does too he aint a member of a conspiracy or nothing similar.Ok they can rigg poker but WHY?
Lets say pokerstars has right now 155,355 people playing at real money tables,do u know how much money that gives them with the rake and the fee at the StG's and the tourneys?Think bout this numbers and i believe u'll understand they dont have absolutely no reason to screw this hole thing up.Cheers mate,and dont worry we all lose.I myself said more than 100 times this fucking thing is cheating but then there where many many many times that it seemed like i was cheating,hittin some unreal 1 outers on the river!It happens,get over it,and learn bout BRM!!!!!!!
