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Would you have played this the same?

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pdfbq
Joined: 23.05.2008

One fun hand for me at PS

SB: 124.5 BB (VPIP: 22.22, PFR: 16.67, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 18)
BB: 71.5 BB (VPIP: 12.50, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 8)
UTG: 95 BB (VPIP: 57.14, PFR: 28.57, 3Bet Preflop: -, Hands: 7)
MP: 99 BB (VPIP: 37.50, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 8)
Hero (CO): 100 BB
BTN: 100 BB (VPIP: 31.07, PFR: 22.33, 3Bet Preflop: 5.65, Hands: 316)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has 9♣ 9♦

UTG calls 1 BB, MP calls 1 BB, Hero calls 1 BB, BTN calls 1 BB, SB calls 0.5 BB, BB checks
I limp here because I think that is the best play in this case. When you want a raise here to work you have to raise big which will bring you're implied odds down (It's what I think now, I can be wrong).

Flop: (6 BB, 6 players) K♦ 5♠ K♣
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, MP checks, Hero checks,
Now I check cuz somebody has to have a K right?

BTN bets 5 BB, fold, fold, fold, fold,

Spoiler

Hero raises to 15 BB, fold
Hero wins 15.5 BB
My though. It would be very unlikely that exactly the most aggressive player at the table has one of the other 2 kings. All other opps were so friendly to fold. I would never bet myself on the flop here but this changed things.


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8 replies
la55i
Joined: 27.01.2013

I would say that limp is not so great. You should iso-raise. Now you just get a lot of action and you don't want to see those overcards when you are 5 way postflop. And it is more difficult to make money in a limped pot.

OTF checking might not be the best play. 1) you should have a lot of fold equity and you can win the pot with a very small bet 2) you don't want to see any T,J,Q, A.
And when you raise you are just guessing and I don't like that very much either


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Moderator
SDK1987
Joined: 12.11.2008

I would isolate to like 5bb in position. This way you have the initiative and it’s less likely you will play multiway as well. As played I would defiantly bet to get some value. Now you are changing your hand in a bluff and if he has a K it doesn’t work.

Cheers,
SDK1987


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insomnia666
Joined: 31.07.2010

5bb iso raise. The hand is too strong. You can over-limp with 88, if you want. Vs one limper 88 and 77 are also easy iso raise. 99 is not so difficult to play. Even multi-way.
As played, 50% bet on the flop. Don't be so scared, I will bet with any pocket pair and 5x.


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Varune
Joined: 24.04.2009

The big mistake is indeed preflop. All the limpers can have any 2 now basicly and thus a King.

As played i don't really mind the x/fold postflop, You're not going to get action from worse and with 6 players the chance of someone having a king is quite big. And you're only going to get in a trickier situation on the turn. You've only invested 1bb so far also..

Sidenote to your thoughtprocess preflop tho: You're talking about implied odds. This shouldn't be your first thought here. When someone has raised before you and you hold a small PP you can think of this. Because when they raised and you call and you hit your set there's a big chance you get paid bigtime.

Now this situation is different, you have 2 Limpers in front of you. This indicates 1) they're weaker players and 2) they have a weak holding( as they would raise with stronger holdings in general). So you should raise with your 99 as it's a very strong holding and hope to get headsup with a player so it plays easier postflop. Now with limping behind you made the pot go 6way and it's 1 big guessing game postflop.


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pdfbq
Joined: 23.05.2008

Interesting.
Here are my thoughts (I do not limp much in general, but, when calling stations are out there I do with speculative hands and IP).

Preflop:
Here I was behind 2 loose players (~57 and ~37VPIP) and an reasonably aggessive BTN.
I figuered I'll never get away with an iso raise of 5BB.
BTN probably calls (is quite loose and has to pay 5BB into a pot of 8.5BB), then the SB and BB will call too and the rest follows and I'm in a 6 way pot anyway but now for 5BB. If I hit my 9 action guaranteed but for 1/5th of the price.

Flop:
My plan was to lay the hand down. I do not understand why I should bet here. Most of the time I'm not even c-betting (I know this is not a c-bet) in a 3-way hand let alone a 6-way but when everybody folded it changed the story. The chance somebody is slow-playing behind me was much bigger than the BTN having the K (1:5).

Originally posted by la55i
And when you raise you are just guessing and I don't like that very much either

I have to make a guess about villains hand here, true that. But I'm really interested in how you do that, knowing so *not* guessing

Edit: People have been posting while I was writing this.

Question: So 99 is to strong to limp but it's kind of the threshold?


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la55i
Joined: 27.01.2013

You don't have to guess villains hand, you have to guess his range. It is possible that one of those guys has a Kx but it is also possible none of them do have that. There are 2 kings on the board so it is not so likely for one to have it.
When villain bets he does it with a part of his range. That range will have 55 and Kx hands, but it will also have other hands. So you can't think he never has Kx here and bluff raise with your hand. That would isolate yourself against only those Kx hands that he in reality has in his range. Instead you could call and hope he slows down or let him keep betting his bluffs.

Question: So 99 is to strong to limp but it's kind of the threshold?

My personal opinion is that you can complete your small blind with all sorts of crap and with small pocket pairs. So when you are SB this hand would be kind of on the threshold. But from other positions it is quite clear imo that you should never ever limp.


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pdfbq
Joined: 23.05.2008

If I would have AA in this hand I would still find it difficult to play pre flop.
Here's the reason, when I bet to small (5BB) I might end up in a multi way pot anyway. When I bet to big everybody folds.
(I am not saying I will limp my AA here! )

As for the BTN. I would fold my Kx hands there preflop. I know it's a good price but you will be guessing on a K72 board

But you guys are right in a sense that in these cases a call from me looks as strong as a bet.
I have to develop my OOP play more for sure.


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insomnia666
Joined: 31.07.2010

Mate, no offence, but you are just scared in multi-way spots. In my country we call this situations "Knife with two edges". The people are thinking just, like you. If you bet here, obv you are not scared from the K .


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