Would you ever get away from this? 3bet pot with KK

very interesting. i'm inclined to fold and the fact that T9 completes just makes me more inclined to do that, i understand that you hope that he'll do something retarded with AT/KT but i would heavily discount that

I would strongly consider checking that flop. As played, check/fold the river readless seems like the best option.

I don't think the flop is that bad for you so I'd bet too, but the turn is really ugly.
Check/call on the river dude, his check back on the turn doesn't cap him as you've seen at showdown.
It's more or less an iron rule of NL5/10 by the way, if they check back a street and raise the next they are so nutsy nuts.

So we learned something new again, thanks guys for your analysys!

I think the flop isn't great tbh simply because it's 3 way and I think JJ QQ QJ make up a good portion of what we get action from if we bet. The turn isn't good either as AQ KQ got there and were looking to now get multiple streets of value from AJ KJ. This is a spot that rightly or wrongly I tend to check/call on the flop. And look for one or two streets of value later on in the hand. I also think it's a spot you can size down the flop and bet 1/3 or like 15bb and same on the turn setting up a river shove on good run outs vs AQ KQ.

But allowing enough wriggle room to fold when raised. The one thing I would say is that I don't think better hands check back the turn very often at these stakes so the river is strange. I kind of feel like he hit 88 on the river or your small bet induced the bluff. And I think we get the 30% or so to make the call here, so I would make a begrudging call the way it played out. I think villain played the hand well though , my only question would be can you take a line to lessen your losses and i'm not sure , possibly?.

Originally posted by OrigamiPoker
I think the flop isn't great tbh simply because it's 3 way and I think JJ QQ QJ make up a good portion of what we get action from if we bet.

No they don't. BU should only have QJs and maybe JJ, MP shouldn't have QJo and anyway both ranges should be quite wide with broadways, PP and SC so there is way enough room for a good old value cbet (not to mention checking is asking for trouble like giving GS and PP a free card). That flop is good enough.
The turn sucks though.We have way less value and I'd go for a check/call but it's not the end of the world either.

Originally posted by MyFloXyBabY

Originally posted by OrigamiPoker
I think the flop isn't great tbh simply because it's 3 way and I think JJ QQ QJ make up a good portion of what we get action from if we bet.

No they don't. BU should only have QJs and maybe JJ, MP shouldn't have QJo and anyway both ranges should be quite wide with broadways, PP and SC so there is way enough room for a good old value cbet (not to mention checking is asking for trouble like giving GS and PP a free card). That flop is good enough.
The turn sucks though.We have way less value and I'd go for a check/call but it's not the end of the world either.

I can go along with that , but do you think once we bet our hand is good enough to play for stacks on the turn ?. I usually consider this type of board a two street value hand/bluff catcher when we check. I'm not that scared of allowing equity to an under pair it's 5% equity and gutters , I mean AK usually 4bets and we block it pretty hard any way. Albeit AK is a 2 outer and we have a redraw should it bink the turn. If we bet the flop we fold basically everything apart from AQ KQs that we beat and do those pay multiple barrels and play for stacks if we take that line ?.

On what turn ?
I'm not sure to understand your question and reasoning, but you seem to underestimate villains' calling ranges, both preflop and flop. They can totally have AJ, 9T etc and we are happy to put maximum pressure on these hands.

Im judging only by his PF stats, but villain seems like a decent player. In this cases i try to be a bit more carefull.

I would probably cbet 2 streets, even though the Turn sucks..
OTR the price is too high and check raising usually sucks. You trapped yourself when u checked turn to induce a bluff.

Yeah now im trying to work out spots when people raise me when i got top/over pair cause 8 out of 10 times im running into set there, and that cost money. Basically these are the spots where im losing tons of chips.. got to work on that

Originally posted by mariorules
Yeah now im trying to work out spots when people raise me when i got top/over pair cause 8 out of 10 times im running into set there, and that cost money. Basically these are the spots where im losing tons of chips.. got to work on that

"When people raise me" is totally the kind of vague generality I'd be wary about. There are lots of people out there. And above all there are lots of spots. A minraise on the flop isn't a raise shove on the river. In the first case they can have anything (even if the infamous "minraise of death" seems to still be a thing for fishes on most micros fields nowadays so beware), in the second case well clearly not.
As a general rule of thumb versus bad unbalanced players you can expect them to become more and more honest as the streets goes on and as the level of money adds up. So river raises are more straightforward than flop ones and reshoving 80 BB into your 25BB is more believable than clickbacking 6BB into your 3BB.
When there is not much time of money left unbalanced people usually mean business.

Sqeeze is a little bit too small isn't it? I would make it 15bb minimum here.

Originally posted by headshot2009
Sqeeze is a little bit too small isn't it? I would make it 15bb minimum here.

Hum, let's say it's definitely on the smallish side of the spectrum but nothing too disturbing either I'd say.
Why not betting a little bigger at least at micros though indeed.

By raising i meant usually 3bet pots when i have AK and flop is A5Q and i got raised allin ott, when you think abou this later he's just saying he's not scared of ace or anything, but i usually call this down and mostly lose to set of 5s etc. I think its pretty hard to get away from this kind of spots couse pot is already big and when u're playing on low limits u see people showing here their QJs etc sometimes

Yeah you aren't supposed to get away from AK in 3bet pots on A5Qx, that's poker. It's not really clever of them to raise so nutsy nuts by the way. But whatever.

Yeah in this spots i just say to myself if you got set then congratz but im not folding here ♦ maybe thats bad or maybe thats just poker and in longrun you will also get sets in spots like this so its all gonna be even

Let's say it's not a game where you are supposed to overfold too much except in the spots where you really are knowing what you are doing (and why you are doing it).
That's why I think the basic old school TAG so called "exploitative" approach is pretty leaked and doesn't prepare people to move up in stakes and step up in their game enough. Too many (in fact already so-so at micros but becoming totally wrong progressively when moving up) automatisms make people run into a wall they hit very hard and very helplessly usually more or less at NL25 or about.
A big example is people not learning to protect their checking range at micros. At NL10 or NL25 their stupidly unbalanced betting pattern is just not working anymore, and even worse often heavily counterexploited by decent regs !
That's why as Lemon talked about once, you can take 2 players that have more or less the same winrate at say NL5 (where knowing GT doesn't necessarily adds up immediately to your profit), but with different playstyles, and then when they move up to 10 or 25 the guy already doing decent range split and thinking soundly GT-like keeps up doing well whereas the classical TAG guy (probably arguing that GTO is for NL400 and all) is crumbling because he doesn't understand anything anymore. Basically he never did lol. Just his stupid way of playing was enough to stack whales at lower stakes and his many little leaks weren't punished as much as they could have been.

You simply can't try to move forth just soul reading people and backing away senselessly as soon as they do or don't do certain things. You are NOT here to fold midset versus topset. It happens, will happen again and more importantly SHOULD happen. Hoping to avoid those without losing value anywhere else whatsoever is nothing but a mere dream issued of misunderstandings about the game nature.
Poker is a mathematical game and you can't fold your top range is all (unless having really good reads etc but come on that's so the exception). Statistics will be on your side if you know what you're doing. That's why it's important to study frequencies, ranges, board textures and all. That's where it's at. And not just hoping to look villain in the eye and make the fold of the year like so many old school livetards seem to search for.

Wow what a long post lol ! I hope it'll be of some interest to some people at least ♦
Anyway I wanted to give my thoughts about that. So here you have it. Now I'm happy.

Still really long way to go for me for sure, i can't imagine myself playing nl25-50 yet , below i will show you spot which on these limits some reg would probably give me big headache and i would not know if im against ace or total air :

@Edit if this guy would jam river i would consider folding for sure ( ofc i dont know if thats good, but i would )

PokerStars - $0.05 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 151.4 BB (VPIP: 23.19, PFR: 16.67, 3Bet Preflop: 9.52, Hands: 140)
SB: 100 BB (VPIP: 23.81, PFR: 19.05, 3Bet Preflop: 10.00, Hands: 66)
BB: 113.2 BB (VPIP: 29.67, PFR: 15.93, 3Bet Preflop: 5.88, Hands: 191)
UTG: 336.6 BB (VPIP: 31.33, PFR: 18.71, 3Bet Preflop: 2.34, Hands: 482)
MP: 113.6 BB (VPIP: 17.10, PFR: 12.44, 3Bet Preflop: 5.68, Hands: 197)
Hero (CO): 100 BB

SB posts SB 0.4 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has K♣ K♠

fold, fold, Hero raises to 2.6 BB, fold, SB raises to 9 BB, BB calls 8 BB, Hero raises to 29 BB, SB calls 20 BB, fold

Flop: (67 BB, 2 players) 9♣ T♠ A♦
SB checks, Hero checks

Turn: (67 BB, 2 players) 9♥
SB bets 21.2 BB, Hero calls 21.2 BB

River: (109.4 BB, 2 players) 5♦
SB checks, Hero checks

SB shows Q♦ Q♥ (Two Pair, Queens and Nines)
(Pre 19%, Flop 10%, Turn 5%)
Hero shows K♣ K♠ (Two Pair, Kings and Nines)
(Pre 81%, Flop 90%, Turn 95%)
Hero wins 104.8 BB

Here I like to go for 1/4 on the flop, already getting decent FE in itself usually as it's a 4bet pot and above all allowing me to check back on the turn and keeping the pot as small as it can get while seeing all the board.
Now the guy has only one barrel left to fire if he wants to play the bluffing game. (Some people will shove on the river to put pressure on me, the bastards ! :P)

It's ok-ish as played, although I'd suppose you need to work outside the tables on splitting your whole range in 4bet pots, but at NL5 it's not that much important to be really theoretical about those given the lack of preflop agressivity of the field.
I'm never calling a river bet as played though. (And that's the main weakness of your line.) You'd just expect (often rightly so) that NL5 people can't fire twice without an ace. And funnily they often do fire once and only once with hands like JJ-QQ which is stupid.