NL5 QQ pre-flop

If you don't want high variance with all in wars, why not just call his 3bet pre?

As played, once I 4bet this hand, I'm likely going with it.

Just call 3bet. 4bet if you have stats on the guy suggesting that he 3bets a ton.
And even then, Axs combo's are better to use because you block AA and AK combo's
That being said, 5bet is around 125% AA/KK on these limits.. So I would be happy if I can find the fold button like you did

Originally posted by marcvz
Just call 3bet. 4bet if you have stats on the guy suggesting that he 3bets a ton.
And even then, Axs combo's are better to use because you block AA and AK combo's
That being said, 5bet is around 125% AA/KK on these limits.. So I would be happy if I can find the fold button like you did

Am also bit worried about calling 3-bet QQ OOP because any low number board we are in bad shape as well as we do not know if villain 3-bet with 99-JJ or QQ+
And it's also weird to fold QQ as an overpair on the turn or so.

How would we proceed if we just call the 3-bet?

4bettting QQ co vs btn is fine just don't fold vs the shove.

Yeah think am being affected cause was loosing shoves with KK vs AQ and multiple QQ vs AK, or AK vs QQ flips before this.
If I was running normal or hot would snap call. I'll make a mental note to not deviate my play.

Originally posted by Dragar
Yeah think am being affected cause was loosing shoves with KK vs AQ and multiple QQ vs AK, or AK vs QQ flips before this.
If I was running normal or hot would snap call. I'll make a mental note to not deviate my play.

Ye same thing you can't start considering folding KK because you lost a few recently to AQ and losing flips is just par of the course.One thing to consider is all the pots your picking up uncontested when villain 3bets and folds vs your 4bet it makes up a large chunk of the ev in these spots.I think from the co,btn and sb you can just go ahead and 4bet/call 5bets with QQ+ AK around 100bb deep.Where as utg and mp can be a bit trickier i'm not always 4betting QQ+ AK from those positions although doing so probably isn't a mistake.

CO vs BTN you should be going broke with QQ. It's 130bb effective, but still.
What is truly -EV is 4bet-fold, if you 4bet you have to go broke.
If you don't feel comfortable, just flat the 3bet, it's a valid play.

Just make sure your 4bet ranges are somewhat balanced with some bluffs if your only ever 4betting value hands people will adjust with that info.For a value 4bet range of say QQ+ AK just throw in the suited wheel Aces for some balance A2s-A5s,it's probably under bluffing slightly but i would think that's fine for the micro's.I'm not sure how necessary 4bet bluffing is in the micros all i can say is i used them even at 2nl on my br challenge.

Originally posted by RedsYNWA
Just make sure your 4bet ranges are somewhat balanced with some bluffs if your only ever 4betting value hands people will adjust with that info.For a value 4bet range of say QQ+ AK just throw in the suited wheel Aces for some balance A2s-A5s,it's probably under bluffing slightly but i would think that's fine for the micro's.I'm not sure how necessary 4bet bluffing is in the micros all i can say is i used them even at 2nl on my br challenge.

No need at NL5. Not a single regular will adapt to it properly, let alone fish.
Now, if he's 3betting 15% like some aggro donks do, 4betting light is obviously ok.

Originally posted by zetozinho
CO vs BTN you should be going broke with QQ. It's 130bb effective, but still.
What is truly -EV is 4bet-fold, if you 4bet you have to go broke.
If you don't feel comfortable, just flat the 3bet, it's a valid play.

That's nonsense.. you never have to go broke because of a move you made before.
If you are sure villain always shows up with kk/aa.. calling is just stupid.

Don't talk yourself into losing plays because GTO sais so or 'you now have to go with it because....'
Especially not at the micros

Originally posted by zetozinho

Originally posted by RedsYNWA
Just make sure your 4bet ranges are somewhat balanced with some bluffs if your only ever 4betting value hands people will adjust with that info.For a value 4bet range of say QQ+ AK just throw in the suited wheel Aces for some balance A2s-A5s,it's probably under bluffing slightly but i would think that's fine for the micro's.I'm not sure how necessary 4bet bluffing is in the micros all i can say is i used them even at 2nl on my br challenge.

No need at NL5. Not a single regular will adapt to it properly, let alone fish.
Now, if he's 3betting 15% like some aggro donks do, 4betting light is obviously ok.

Players in the micro's probably still 3bet aggressively enough and react badly enough 4bets to incorporate some 4bet bluffs in your ranges though.I still think it's going to be profitable and your picking up good habbits and learning about ranges on the way imo.

Originally posted by marcvz

Originally posted by zetozinho
CO vs BTN you should be going broke with QQ. It's 130bb effective, but still.
What is truly -EV is 4bet-fold, if you 4bet you have to go broke.
If you don't feel comfortable, just flat the 3bet, it's a valid play.

That's nonsense.. you never have to go broke because of a move you made before.
If you are sure villain always shows up with kk/aa.. calling is just stupid.

Non-sense? I did not mention anything about "go broke because of a move you made before".
I also didn't metion anything about villain always having AA/KK.
So I don't know what you mean seriously. What I do know is that 4bet-folding is wrong, period.

Yes Reds, you can 4bet light for sure. But your winrate doesn't come from those spots, never has and never will.

Originally posted by zetozinho

Originally posted by marcvz

Originally posted by zetozinho
CO vs BTN you should be going broke with QQ. It's 130bb effective, but still.
What is truly -EV is 4bet-fold, if you 4bet you have to go broke.
If you don't feel comfortable, just flat the 3bet, it's a valid play.

That's nonsense.. you never have to go broke because of a move you made before.
If you are sure villain always shows up with kk/aa.. calling is just stupid.

Non-sense? I did not mention anything about "go broke because of a move you made before".
I also didn't metion anything about villain always having AA/KK.
So I don't know what you mean seriously. What I do know is that 4bet-folding is wrong, period.

Yes Reds, you can 4bet light for sure. But your winrate doesn't come from those spots, never has and never will.

What I do know is that 4bet-folding is wrong, period.

Well. If you state it like that. There's no room to argue is there?
I think 4bet folding is perfectly fine against the right villain.
And I am making profit by 4bet folding some hands against over agro 3betters at the micro's.

Is that where the most of the profit comes from? Of course not. But all the bits count toward a better winrate.

Yes Reds, you can 4bet light for sure. But your winrate doesn't come from those spots, never has and never will.

Every play you make effects your win rate so it's all relevant i would think.

I have a question to this topic.

If Villain 3bets very agressivly. Lets say, the mentioned 15%.
I thought that means that we can call a wider range. And not that we can 4bet a wider range.

That we can 4bet a wider range, i though Villain needs to have a wide calling range against 4bets. (What is not necessarily true, just because he 3bets much.)

Am I correct here or wrong?

Originally posted by Dragar
I am so uncomfortable with this hand recently cause I can't win a flip ever and don't feel like doing it anymore.

Should we always go broke in this situation with above 100bb?

You know I've been wondering the same thing. I think I lost the last six AIPF races PP vs AK/AQ. I keep putting coins in the machine expecting different results. But now that I lost six of them, I think I'm gonna put 12 more coins in and see what happens next.

Having same issue, just keep running into it with QQ. Don't worry to go broke with it on the flop (if you call) cause it would have gone in anyway. It doesn't bother me, just a setup nothing you can do.

Originally posted by Tyrion88
I have a question to this topic.

If Villain 3bets very agressivly. Lets say, the mentioned 15%.
I thought that means that we can call a wider range. And not that we can 4bet a wider range.

That we can 4bet a wider range, i though Villain needs to have a wide calling range against 4bets. (What is not necessarily true, just because he 3bets much.)

Am I correct here or wrong?

If villain 3bet folds a lot you can add more 4bet bluffs if they call or shove vs a 4bet a lot you can widen your 4bet value range.You can also start widening your calling range vs an aggressive 3 bettor so either or are all options imo.